OL Orlando Brown Isn't Considered A First Rounder Anymore. In Fact, Some Say He's A Day 3 Pick Now...

[JakeDel5674]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

That's a valid concern.

That said, if game film checks out (and he has some accomplishments to speak of) and the interview process determines that it's not a work ethic issue, I'd have no problem with using a day two pick on him.

NFL level conditioning programs will get him in shape. That's for certain.

[imminent rogaine]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Absolutely. The combine is both overrated and underrated. When a speedy WR runs 4.5+ and people start freaking out, I doubt NFL talent evaluators are "freaking out". They definitely go back and look at the tape and reaffirm what they'd seen previously. But when guys go to the combine and post numbers where literally no one at their position has every performed like that and gone on to have NFL success... whoa. NFL GMs and scouts are all about comps. Everyone misses some picks, but it's nice to be able to have excuses to justify WHY you took said prospect. Let's use Everette Brown for an example. Yep, bust. BUT, he had good college production. He had good workouts. You can justify why that pick was made. Now let's look at Orlando Brown. Great college player, but he went to the combine and posted numbers that were absolutely bottom of the barrel. Let's say you take that guy in the 2nd round and he predictably busts. How are you justifying that pick. The combine essentially told you that he either wasn't an NFL caliber athlete or he completely blew off the combine and didn't give a rat's ass about his one all important multi-million dollar job interview and probably won't have the work ethic to succeed in the NFL. I honestly don't think you can justify more than a day 3 pick on the guy unless he turns around and performs way better at his pro day.

fair. I'd be thrilled if we landed him on day 3.

We know that GMs and coaches also have egos and like to show how big their dick is -Hurney did this with Armanti and it failed, DG did this with Kugbila and Bradberry and when he signed that giant canadian guy. Someone will draft him earlier than where they think the rest of the GMs are valuing him just on upside. You know someone out there thinks that they are the guy that can make this guy the next Jason Peters.

Like I said, I think even with the shitty combine, the other things will be too much for some GM to pass.

[tondi]

Sounds like someone's talking him down to try and pick him up in the third. 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's a valid concern.

That said, if game film checks out (and he has some accomplishments to speak of) and the interview process determines that it's not a work ethic issue, I'd have no problem with using a day two pick on him.

NFL level conditioning programs will get him in shape. That's for certain.

If three years in an elite level college S&C program that puts multiple guys into the NFL year after year didn't get him in any better shape than that, it's a HUGE red flag.

I still think there has to be more to this story. There's no way a two time Big 12 OL of the year is THAT poor of an athlete and/or that lazy. I just can't buy that.

[Ricky Spanish]

13 minutes ago, JakeDel5674 said:

Nothing from what I gather. So, I'm not sure. But, when he faced elite Defensive Lines in College he dominated. Ohio State, and Auburn for instance. Joey Bosa did nothing vs him. 

I'd take him in the 3rd +. That's when you take guys with potential but with questions. 

[JakeDel5674]

1 minute ago, Cracka McNasty said:

I'd take him in the 3rd +. That's when you take guys with potential but with questions. 

Yeah, if we would've taken Ealy in the Third, I think we all would've been fine with what we got out of him. Even in the Second, seems like Panthers fans call him a bust. 

[JakeDel5674]

2 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Day 2 is way too risky IMHO for a guy who literally only did better than Rich Eisen. This draft is chock full of day 2 guys. It’s not a huge star 1st round heavy draft. There are a bunch of 2nd/3rd guys clumped. I’d rather take a risk on some of those guys. If we hit it out of the park with our first 4 picks then we are a contender again. Brown’s not going to do that. 

With the right Coaching, Brown can take over for Matt shitty Kalil in a few years. Which I'm okay with. If we get him in the third or forth, it will be a steal, regardless of what you think or not. 

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Day 2 is way too risky IMHO for a guy who literally only did better than Rich Eisen. This draft is chock full of day 2 guys. It’s not a huge star 1st round heavy draft. There are a bunch of 2nd/3rd guys clumped. I’d rather take a risk on some of those guys. If we hit it out of the park with our first 4 picks then we are a contender again. Brown’s not going to do that. 

I Iknow I've heard at least one scout (maybe Gil Brandt, don't quote me) say there's no more useless measure of an offensive lineman than his 40 time.

Did he bomb his audition? Yeah, no doubt. That said, while I appreciate the value of the Combine, I've seen great Combine performers bust and lousy Combine performers excel.

When it comes to player evaluations, it needs to be only part of the equation, and definitely not the largest part.

[JakeDel5674]

Just now, stbugs said:

If we had a 4th I’d consider him there but I think at 3.21/3.24 there are going to be guys who could help us in 2018. There’s too much risk to pass over guys who might start, if we pick well. 

Let me destroy this fallacy real quick.

Third Round picks in the past five years

Dashon Hall-Didn't play last year.

Daryl Worley-HAHAHAHAHA. REAL IMPACT HES MADE.

No third rounder, but a forth rounder.....

Daryl Williams-Played sparingly, and that's a nice thing to say about him

Trae Turner-One exception. Good for him man.

No third rounder in the Draft before.....

Edmund Kagbila-As useful as a football bath.

No third rounder again....

Joe Adams-Useless.

Frank Alexander-Played sparingly in his first season.

Yeah man, too much risk. And this Franchise has shown, we do not pick well in the third or forth round for players that will help us that damn year they are Drafted. Trae Turner is the only exception. Thank you, come again. 

 

 

 

[Cpt slay a ho]

Still has his pro day to watch for, I’m actually cool with drafting him in the 3rd, too many times players get they ass whooped during real games, but shine in the combine to get overdrafted. If Game film adds up make the call in the 3rd

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

If three years in an elite level college S&C program that puts multiple guys into the NFL year after year didn't get him in any better shape than that, it's a HUGE red flag.

I still think there has to be more to this story. There's no way a two time Big 12 OL of the year is THAT poor of an athlete and/or that lazy. I just can't buy that.

From what's been said, he's never been a good "workout" guy, and I can understand that. Heck, some guys don't even look good in practice (Delhomme never did) but they still performed on the field.

Those things don't necessarily equal lazy though.

You don't draft lazy. On that I can agree. But I think I'd like to be really careful determining whether this guy's problem is actually laziness, because that's not guaranteed.

Game tape that I've seen of him just doesn't say "lazy" to me. It does say "better pass blocker than run blocker," but that's a lot of guys.

[JakeDel5674]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

From what's been said, he's never been a good "workout" guy, and I can understand that. Heck, some guys don't even look good in practice (Delhomme never did) but they still performed on the field.

Those things don't necessarily equal lazy though.

You don't draft lazy. On that I can agree. But I think I'd like to be really careful determining whether this guy's problem is actually laziness, because that's not guaranteed.

Game tape that I've seen of him just doesn't say "lazy" to me. It does say "better pass blocker than run blocker," but that's a lot of guys.

Since you would know more about this than most of us. Is it easier to pass block, or run block? Just curious. Daryl Williams was known as a road grader at OU, and now he's both a solid pass blocker, and run blocker. 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, stbugs said:

How can it possibly not be a work ethic issue? As @LinvilleGorge mentioned, how could he have possibly ended at OU like this? The only thing I can think of is that he literally sat on a couch and ate all day, every day since the bowl game ended. There’s no way you can tell me that he wasn’t the most out of shape combine participant ever. I remember the slow OL last year and even he didn’t look as bad. NFL level conditioning may help but he’ll be so far behind and may never get there. That’s the risk that will push him down.

There's no minimizing just how poor his Combine performance was, and I wouldn't try. It was awful. No question.

There's also no denying the major college program where he spent the last few years viewed him as a starter at one of the most important positions on the field, and their opinion would seem to have been validated by his performance.

I'm not acting as his apologist here, but I am saying that you have to see the whole picture. 

[JakeDel5674]

1 minute ago, stbugs said:

Also, how is Daryl Williams not a success? Made the all-pro second team in his 3rd year. Worley is meh, but he’s also a starter.

You stated, players that will make an impact in the year they're Drafted. ALA 2018. Both, were useless to terrible their first years. Which was my original point. I've watched Brown for other 3 years, and each time I've watched him, I've been thoroughly impressed by him. He and the rest of OU's Line (which none will get Drafted, the way it looks). Destroyed the best Defensive Line in College with Auburn and Ohio State, back to back years. And gave Georgia fits until Lincoln Riley went full retard with the play calling on Offense. So, that's what I've seen. It's hard to NOT take up for the guy, that you could argue was the best Offensive Lineman the past two years, and I've watched it.