Rapoport: Panthers working out long-term deal with K Graham Gano. Franchise Tag if not done by 4pm tomorrow

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, thefuzz said:

You are using 2 missed kicks out of 6 for a rookie kicker on a single day to back this move up?

It's not just about the damn kicker, it's about the contracts and cap as well.

There is a way to know......the financial side of the business.  Look at the damn contract, and make the smart financial move for the best fo the Carolina Panthers.

No, it was just an example of prevalent talk throughout camp. Igo was at virtually all of the practices that were open to media and he posted on here repeatedly that the kicking competition wasn't a competition. Gano was winning it in a blowout.

You're falling into the fallacy of the benefit of hindsight. I've already said if we could go back we'd go with Butker. I'm trying to explain to you why we went with Gano in the first place because you seem to have forgotten that by everyone's account who actually attended the practices Butker didn't look like an NFL kicker. You have to make your decisions based off of the information you have available.

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, Car123 said:

Dude, Butker was Olindo Mare-like during training camp. It wouldn’t have been wise to roll with him. We didn’t want replicate the Bucs kicking situation.

Show me some sources.  Then backup that up with explaining what we could have done with that extra money, and our hands not wringing deciding weather or not to use the tag on a kicker.

 

[Mr. Scot]

29 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, I have a hard time blaming Hurney for the decision. By all accounts Butker wasn't having a good camp and Gano looked like hands down the better kicker. Could you have imagined the howling had we kept Butker, he continued to struggle, and Gano had the season he had last year elsewhere. Oh good lord...

I don't really think anybody would have howled. People here hated Gano ever since he blew that game winning kick in week one. A  huge cheer went up from this board when we drafted someone to replace him.

I'd also venture that if Gano had gone to another team, that team would not have shied away from letting him try 50 yarders.

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, thefuzz said:

Show me some sources.  Then backup that up with explaining what we could have done with that extra money, and our hands not wringing deciding weather or not to use the tag on a kicker.

 

I showed you a source. You didn't like it.

What we would do with the extra money, etc. is irrelevant. We were trying to win last year. We went with who was the best kicker at that moment. The staff didn't trust Butker because he'd had a poor camp. You would be on here raising hell if Butker had struggled last year while Gano kicked well elsewhere and you know it.

You make the best decision in the moment that you can and you roll with it. Don't you think we'd much rather have Ted Ginn right now instead of Russell Shepard? That one hurt us a helluva lot more than keeping Gano over Butker.

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

No, it was just an example of prevalent talk throughout camp. Igo was at virtually all of the practices that were open to media and he posted on here repeatedly that the kicking competition wasn't a competition. Gano was winning it in a blowout.

You're falling into the fallacy of the benefit of hindsight. I've already said if we could go back we'd go with Butker. I'm trying to explain to you why we went with Gano in the first place because you seem to have forgotten that by everyone's account who actually attended the practices Butker didn't look like an NFL kicker. You have to make your decisions based off of the information you have available.

The information was right there in front of you.

1 year on a contract vs. 4.

1 year of said contract costing almost double what the entire 4 would have cost for Butker.

What did Marty think was going to happen at the conclusion of the 2017 season?  Gano was just magically resign for vet minimum?

Are you also saying that had Butker struggled, that we couldn't have brought someone else in?

I feel like I'm arguing about "Double Trouble" all over again.

[brandon_87]

1 hour ago, TheSpecialJuan said:

Either long-term or tag would be fine, both will be in the $5 million a year range. I told you guys, we are not letting Gano leave, he's simply too damn valuable. 

A kicker that the coach doesn't trust to kick past 50? Real fuging valuable

[therealmjl]

3 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Show me some sources.  Then backup that up with explaining what we could have done with that extra money, and our hands not wringing deciding weather or not to use the tag on a kicker.

 

I don’t have a dog in the fight here but Butker was pretty awful during camp.

It was widely reported as so. Gano outperformed him by a long shot.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't really think anybody would have howled. People here hated Gano. A  huge cheer went up from this board when we drafted someone to replace him.

I'd also venture that if Gano had gone to another team, that team would not have shied away from letting him try 50 yarders.

I wanted Butker to beat out Gano too, but you're kidding yourself if this board wouldn't have been howling like a pack of wolves on a full moon night had we kept Butker and he struggled while Gano kicked well elsewhere.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, thefuzz said:

The information was right there in front of you.

1 year on a contract vs. 4.

1 year of said contract costing almost double what the entire 4 would have cost for Butker.

What did Marty think was going to happen at the conclusion of the 2017 season?  Gano was just magically resign for vet minimum?

Are you also saying that had Butker struggled, that we couldn't have brought someone else in?

I feel like I'm arguing about "Double Trouble" all over again.

One kicker was struggling. One kicker was kicking great. No one had the benefit of being able to look in their magic glass ball and see the future. The contract situations were irrelevant because one guy looked like an NFL kicker and the other guy didn't.

[Car123]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Show me some sources.  Then backup that up with explaining what we could have done with that extra money, and our hands not wringing deciding weather or not to use the tag on a kicker.

 

PM Igo or look at any 2017 training camp report.

Save money, yeah, but lose games. Not worth it. 

Hindsight is 20/20.

[thefuzz]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

I showed you a source. You didn't like it.

What we would do with the extra money, etc. is irrelevant. We were trying to win last year. We went with who was the best kicker at that moment. The staff didn't trust Butker because he'd had a poor camp. You would be on here raising hell if Butker had struggled last year while Gano kicked well elsewhere and you know it.

You make the best decision in the moment that you can and you roll with it. Don't you think we'd much rather have Ted Ginn right now instead of Russell Shepard? That one hurt us a helluva lot more than keeping Gano over Butker.

That money isn't irrelevant....as we are now going to overpay for Gano again, costing us the ability to either extend a player on our team, or sign a free agent.

Trying to "win last year" is exactly how you fall into this stupid hole.  You have to try to win now, and in the future.  The NFL doesn't work like the NBA.

The best decision, at that time, was cut Gano....who was coming off of his worst season since 2011, and go with the younger, cheaper option.

Again, show me some sources that Butker didn't look like an NFL kicker.  You produced an article from Huddle favorite Jourdan Rodrique stating that Butker had missed 2 FG's our of 6 attempts during a training camp practice.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I wanted Butker to beat out Gano too, but you're kidding yourself if this board wouldn't have been howling like a pack of wolves on a full moon night had we kept Butker and he struggled while Gano kicked well elsewhere.

But that's kinda like saying the board would have been pissed if Andrew Norwell struggled.  Sure they would have, but that didn't happen. 

Butker looked great and the Chiefs now look like they're set for a decade to come at kicker.  Meanwhile, we were gun shy to try long field goals.  Wondering what would have happened had we tried those field goals is a more valid hypothetical.

 

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, thefuzz said:

That money isn't irrelevant....as we are now going to overpay for Gano again, costing us the ability to either extend a player on our team, or sign a free agent.

Trying to "win last year" is exactly how you fall into this stupid hole.  You have to try to win now, and in the future.  The NFL doesn't work like the NBA.

The best decision, at that time, was cut Gano....who was coming off of his worst season since 2011, and go with the younger, cheaper option.

Again, show me some sources that Butker didn't look like an NFL kicker.  You produced an article from Huddle favorite Jourdan Rodrique stating that Butker had missed 2 FG's our of 6 attempts during a training camp practice.

I just think it's funny that you accused me of selective memory when literally all of the talk around the kicking battle last year was how good Gano looked and how Butker was struggling.

You're so fixated on the contractual situations that you're completely overlooking the fact that Harrison Butker did not look like an NFL caliber kicker last year in camp. You have to forget everything he did in KC after we released him because we had to work off of the knowledge that we had at the time which was that Gano had looked like the better kicker all throughout camp.

[Camp Fodder]

2 hours ago, Dunn said:

This is what it has resorted to...our excitement is about signing a kicker.  

Yep our big FA signing