Big difference in cut players attitudes

[AggieLean]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow said:

When did this no class indignity incident occur?

If it’s true Steve Smith found out he was let go on Twitter, then there’s no dignity or class in that. Both Dave and Ron were wrong for that.

[frash.exe]

5 minutes ago, AggieLean said:

But you’re against that for us normal joes, so why are you for it for the players?

Why do you hate that environment for us normals but your ok with it for players and athletes?

idk where you got that impression. i’m pro player on a number of things. i agree they should have a right to a player’s association and negotiate a contract and even have agent representation. i agree that they deserve compensation from the league if they have been permanently disabled physically or mentally. i agree that they should even be able to peacefully protest before or after the game.

but nowhere in the CBA does it state that players should be treated with a level of accomodation going beyond the legal requirement of what a team is obligated to  do to process a player’s release. and this emphasis on courtesy serves no purpose but to feed their egos so i don’t support it. at the end of the day, they’re no more gods than you or me. they still poo in a toilet, and they are still mortal.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, AggieLean said:

If it’s true Steve Smith found out he was let go on Twitter, then there’s no dignity or class in that. Both Dave and Ron were wrong for that.

Way too many players have said these types of things for it not to be true. I think there's a chance that Gettleman is a big old softy at heart and he makes the necessary moves and just doesn't know how to break the news to the players so he just... well, doesn't. That would kind of jive with what Beason was saying. Saw Gettleman right before he was cut and Gettleman was all smiles asking how he was doing and then finds out he's cut.

[Mr. Scot]

Here's a pretty definitive and realistic take on the Gettleman firing by Will Brinson.

Panthers appear to be choosing family over football

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To understand why Jerry Richardson decided to pull the shocking move of removing general manager Dave Gettleman a mere eight days before the Panthers begin training camp at Wofford College in Spartanburg, S.C., you need to go all the way back to 2011. Fresh off a vitriol-filled lockout that would compress the offseason and eventually pave way for the current CBA, the Panthers spent the offseason doling out massive contracts to in-house veterans.

These deals were a surprise, because Richardson, who was one of the primary faces of the lockout for his terse negotiations with the likes of Drew Brees and Tom Brady, had spent the two years leading up to the lockout keeping the purse strings tight as possible in anticipation of an ugly labor battle. Former GM Marty Hurney gets the "credit" for the contracts handed out, but it is widely believed Richardson was adamant about paying some of the players who had been with the franchise for the long haul, providing them lockout reparations of a sort.

Running back DeAngelo Williams got a five-year, $43 million deal. Linebacker James Anderson got $21 million guaranteed over five years. Thomas Davis, then coming off multiple ACL injuries, signed a five-year, $36.5 million deal. Charles Johnson received a mind-blowing $72 million over six years to keep him from leaving for the Falcons. Current CBS Sports colleague Jon Beason received a five-year, $50 million contract, making him the highest-paid middle linebacker in NFL history (we should have known Beason would be great at the media thing -- he broke the news on Twitter back in 2011 before athletes even did such things).

These were not bad deals for bad players. But in many cases they were contracts loaded with unnecessary financial risk and, rather quickly, they helped to put the Panthers in a precarious salary cap situation. Paying Davis that kind of guaranteed money coming off two ACLs? It actually worked out, but it was insanity. Giving huge money to a running back is laughable now but everyone knew it was questionable back in 2011 -- the Panthers would double down the next year on Jonathan Stewart.

Beason definitely never played up to that contract.  Heck, after it was written he barely played at all.  And 21 million to James Anderson?  Plus 43 to Williams and then more to Stewart?  Ugh.

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The large core of fan (and owner) favorite players were intact and locked into deals, but the Panthers were in a bad spot financially heading into 2013. Enter Gettleman, who was hired after the 2012 season and charged with ushering in a more efficient era of Panthers football.

Gettleman succeeded marvelously in cleaning up Carolina's cap space while adding a base of young talent to the roster. The Panthers are in a great position heading into 2017, sitting on $17 million in cap space with a franchise quarterback in Cam Newton secured for the long haul at a reasonable rate.

But in the same way that Irwin R. Schyster could never be a fan favorite, there was no way that the frugal Gettleman -- a scout at heart, a film junkie  and a guy charged with cleaning up the cap -- could keep everyone happy. His moves came at a price, one that is often realized in the NFL world under the term "business."

 

Weird that he says this is "often realized" in the NFL.  I thought it was unique to Gettleman.

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The Josh Norman situation didn't help matters, even if letting Norman walk was the prudent financial move. Gettleman's philosophy was to build along the line and not give big money to cornerbacks, and he found a good one in James Bradberry to replace Norman.

But just like the releases of Williams and Smith, the Norman thing had to grate on Richardson, losing a popular, homegrown player in free agency as an ugly, public spat between the player and GM spilled into the media.

Things may have come to a head this offseason thanks to a similar situation. Two beloved Panthers players, Davis and Greg Olsen, both wanted new contracts.

Davis is 34 and, rather miraculously, playing the best football of his career. After being inexplicably snubbed for the Pro Bowl for nearly a decade, Davis finally secured back-to-back berths. But he is long in the tooth and he does have a lengthy history of injury. This isn't me betting against Davis being good, but he is a 34-year-old linebacker with one year left on his deal. Giving him a bunch of money now could backfire. But make no mistake -- Davis is one of the franchise's favorite players. He is a Walter Payton Man of the Year Award winner. He is incredibly active in the Charlotte community. He has spent 11 years with Richardson's franchise and the idea of stonewalling him this late in the game probably doesn't sit well.

 

And here we get to the crux of things...
 

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This is a good spot to ask "What would Bill Belichick do?" Because Bill Belichick probably wouldn't give the older linebacker a new deal before the season starts. Gettleman probably wouldn't either, or certainly wouldn't break the bank for Davis.

The same might apply to Olsen, a highly productive, 31-year-old tight end with two years left on his deal. Joe Person of the Charlotte Observer reported that a Davis deal was going to be the first thing on the to-do list, while an Olsen deal was probably going to be waiting in the wings for a while. Olsen, like Davis, has endeared himself not just to the fanbase, but to the community. The HEARTest Yard/Receptions for Research are critical for helping kids with heart troubles at Levine Children's Hospital -- throw a rock in Charlotte and you can find someone willing to attest to the impact of Olsen's foundation far outside the lines of the football field.

The point being is that these decisions are not football decisions. They appear to be decisions made in the interest of family rather than football. Dave Gettleman was not going to make family-friendly decisions. He also wasn't interested in maintaining a buddy-buddy relationship with the players on his roster. That's his prerogative, just as it's Richardson's prerogative to relieve Gettleman of his duties if he believes the GM is treating the players poorly.

 

Bingo.

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Richardson is nothing if not loyal. He has the NFL shield painted on the field at Bank of America stadium, eschewing the rather standard procedure of having a team's logo in place. It is widely believed that any sort of sale or succession plan for the Panthers following Richardson's ownership (he is 81 years old today, happy birthday, Jerry!) will be entirely contingent on the Panthers remaining in the Carolinas. Richardson is extremely proud of bringing professional football to North (and South) Carolina. It is his legacy. He cares deeply about the players who are part of the franchise in a way that does not necessarily fit the mold of a 2017 NFL franchise and the business surrounding that team.

And again...

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Gettleman's job was to craft the best roster possible and he did it in a pretty ruthless fashion. Trai Turner, Star Lotulelei and Andrew Norwell -- all up-and-coming hog mollies in their athletic prime (Lotulelei is 27, Turner 24, Norwell 25) -- are going to be due contracts soon. It is going to be a squeeze to get all those guys taken care of either this offseason or, more likely, next offseason.

Adding big money to guys like Davis and Olsen now is not the sort of thing that is going to make doing those other deals easier. If you want to make a strictly football-related decision, you hold off on paying the veterans and you start working on locking up the younger talent. Pay people based on future expectations, not past performance.

 

Exactly.
 

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Unfortunately for Gettleman, politics is also part of the job of NFL GM. We've seen twice this offseason, first with Jon Dorsey in Kansas City and now with Gettleman in Carolina, that simply being a good evaluator of football talent won't always cut it in certain organizations. For Gettleman, treating popular Panthers players poorly was a political misstep. It also, fairly obviously, resonated in the locker room. The reality that someone like Norman -- who was drafted late, worked hard, loved the Panthers and became one of the key members of the 2015 NFC title team -- could be publicly punted to the curb didn't sit well with the other guys on the roster. The mojo Carolina created in 2015 evaporated quickly last year. It's fair to wonder if the reality of business helped to fuel some discontent across multiple levels of the club.

Unfortunately for the Panthers organization, the way this unfolded was less than ideal. Letting Gettleman operate free agency and the draft and cutting him loose in late July after his right hand man Brandon Beane, a North Carolina native, bolted for the Bills is a bad look. If Richardson wanted to move on from his GM, he should have done so after the Panthers faltered and fell to six wins in 2016. Patience is a virtue, but not when it runs into a late offseason brick wall of instability.

 

Perhaps Richardson knew who was going to do a better job.

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There are rumors an interim GM could come in the form of Hurney. The irony of that would be rich -- Richardson replacing the stone-cold football guy who cut all his favorite veterans with the affable Hurney who helped to put the Panthers in a bad position half a decade ago. That's not to dog Hurney, who had more than his fair share of strong moves, including a heist of a trade in 2012 when he stole Olsen from the Bears for a third-round pick.

That proved true.

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Gettleman worked hard to get the Panthers in a position to shop somewhere other than the dollar store. And now someone else gets to max out his credit card. Lock up the veterans and try to squash some of the locker room discord that manifested itself over the past year. But the lesson of 2011 and the years that followed in Carolina should not be ignored.

Richardson's dedication to his football family is admirable. But it can easily put his beloved Panthers at a competitive disadvantage in the hyper-competitive NFL if it's not managed correctly.

 

And again, Bingo.

There's a reason why the most successful period in franchise history came with someone that Jerry Richardson didn't pick running the show.  Had Richardson stayed out of it, who knows?  But instead, he just had to bring back the guy who would run things his way and treat everyone like family.

After all, that's more important than winning games, right?

[Jon Snow]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Watch the video of the Beason interview I posted earlier in this thread. He specifically talked about the lack of class with how his situation was handled and gave specific details about his situation vs. how these types of situations are usually handled.

I liked most of Gettleman's football moves, but there's way too much smoke for their not to be some fire to all the rumors that the man handled his business with an unnecessary amount of crass. 

So the source is from a disgruntled employee?  Do you have any other sources?  I mean I have had to let go of employees before myself and most of them showed little class or respect to me when they received the news.   I'm sure their side of the story is unbiased and respectful.

[LinvilleGorge]

Mr. Scot, nothing you just posted has anything to do with the communication with the players. That's where so many former players seem to have had issues. Not necessarily that they WERE cut, but HOW the situation was handled. You can do your job without being an asshole about it.

[Jon Snow]

6 minutes ago, AggieLean said:

If it’s true Steve Smith found out he was let go on Twitter, then there’s no dignity or class in that. Both Dave and Ron were wrong for that.

So Dave and/or Ron went on Twitter and announced Steve was cut?

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, AggieLean said:

If it’s true Steve Smith found out he was let go on Twitter, then there’s no dignity or class in that. Both Dave and Ron were wrong for that.

It's not.

Smith got upset about comments that everyone was being "evaluated" made in an interview.  He met with Gettleman shortly after and was told he was being released. He called Rivera a coward shortly after for not being man enough to tell him or some such.

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, Jon Snow said:

So the source is from a disgruntled employee?  Do you have any other sources?  I mean I have had to let go of employees before myself and most of them showed little class or respect to me when they received the news.   I'm sure their side of the story is unbiased and respectful.

LOL! Who else would have direct knowledge of how the process was handled?

Based on your posts in this thread, yeah I can imagine those conversations didn't go well for you.

Hell, I once fired someone and was legitimately thanked for it. The guy knew he wasn't a good fit for the position but he was keeping the bills paid and comfortable so he just hadn't really started looking for another job. Getting terminated lit a fire under his ass and he went out and found a job that better suited him and he's a lot happier now. We still stay in touch.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Mr. Scot, nothing you just posted has anything to do with the communication with the players. That's where so many former players seem to have had issues. Not necessarily that they WERE cut, but HOW the situation was handled. You can do your job without being an asshole about it.

I'll ask you the same question: If you 're an NFL owner and you have to choose between an a--hole who wins and a nice guy who's mediocre, who are you taking?

(and no, you can't cop out and say "neither"; you have to pick one)

 

[Jon Snow]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

LOL! Who else would have direct knowledge of how the process was handled?

Based on your posts in this thread, yeah I can imagine those conversations didn't go well for you.

Hell, I once fired someone and was legitimately thanked for it. The guy knew he wasn't a good fit for the position but he was keeping the bills paid and comfortable so he just hadn't really started looking for another job. Getting terminated lit a fire under his ass and he went out and found a job that better suited him and he's a lot happier now. We still stay in touch.

I have also had employees that were let go and be grateful for the opportunity I had given them as I fired them, so what?  You are basing you assumptions on one side of the story.  I'm taking the source into account before I jump to conclusions.

[The Natural]

2 hours ago, frash.exe said:

panthers under gettleman: 4 playoff berths in 5 seasons

carolinahuddle: oh that’s great and all, but you know what i really miss? players having good reactions after being cut.

Lol if you're going to brag about a losing record in 2014 we might as well chalk up six more "good" seasons for Hurney with the 7-9 and 8-8 records. Hell going by that standard nine of his eleven seasons were good. Yippee!

[LinvilleGorge]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'll ask you the same question: If you 're an NFL owner and you have to choose between an a--hole who wins and a nice guy who's mediocre, who are you taking?

(and no, you can't cop out and say "neither"; you have to pick one)

 

No, you really don't. Like I said earlier, it's not a simple black and white either/or issue. I didn't like that Gettleman was fired. Based on what we know I didn't think he should've been fired. But at the same time, I also acknowledge that it's probable that these issues were discussed more than a couple of times before he was ultimately fired.

[LinvilleGorge]

7 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I have also had employees that were let go and be grateful for the opportunity I had given them as I fired them, so what?  You are basing you assumptions on one side of the story.  I'm taking the source into account before I jump to conclusions.

Who else would have knowledge of how these situations were handled? It's not like it's done in front of the whole locker room.

The Smitty and Dwill situations I was willing to brush off as sour grapes. But when men like Jon Beason and Jordan Gross, Thomas Davis and Greg Olsen start speaking up it's probably time to listen.