Big difference in cut players attitudes

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I said no big names want to go to Cleveland or Cincy.  Get your poo straight. 

Gettleman wasn't the Devil,  but he was building a reputation.  If he continues to do what he did here---letting players find out that they were cut (or effectively cut) in the news as opposed to his office,  then, yeah,  that will eventually affect the Giants negatively.  His rep is still developing, but he isn't going to do himself or his organization any favors acting like an ass. 

Some players need to be let go,  but that doesn't mean that you can continually do it the wrong way.  Stop circumventing the point by talking about what the players do after they're cut. 

You're not going to play the game of moving goalposts with me and not get called on it.

Yeah...except I'm not.

You were the one suggesting players wouldn't want to sign with a team where Gettleman was the GM.  Now it looks like you're realizing you can't back that up so you're making excuses.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, top dawg said:

And to your acting insinuation that all the players were a bunch of whining babies not used to be having like professionals,  that's so damned convenient that it's incredulous.  The constant here was Gettleman and his behavior. The ONLY one that was really overly petty was D-Will.  

Smith called Rivera a coward.

[top dawg]

5 minutes ago, The Natural said:

What a lame straw man you're building here. Nobody is claiming it prevents every FA but it certainly does have an impact. No other GM in history has had such a bad relationship with players. Whether you want to admit it or not his lack of "people skills" is a flaw and for a GM it's a fatal flaw. 

You're absolutely right. It's a straw man argument if I've ever seen one. 

[top dawg]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yeah...except I'm not.

You were the one suggesting players wouldn't want to sign with a team where Gettleman was the GM.  Now it looks like you're realizing you can't back that up so you're making excuses.

I didn't say that.  I said what I said.  Perhaps you should go back and read. 

[Moo Daeng]

Clearly the only possible realities are that Gettleman is a heartless and savage scrooge and Hurney is an emo pal of everyone who does everything by emotion. 

[top dawg]

It's simply a dumb argument to say that how a GM treats his players or is perceived to treat his players is meaningless when it comes to free agency. Instead of admitting it,  Scot just doubles down on everything but the point.

[top dawg]

17 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Smith called Rivera a coward.

He said that Rivera was cowardly avoiding him.  And I can see how he'd think that if Ron were avoiding him.  He had had his "nuff" with the entire situation.  He was rightfully upset.  Ron probably was avoiding him after Gettleman put him in the situation. 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, top dawg said:

It's simply a dumb argument to say that how a GM treats his players or is perceived to treat his players is meaningless when it comes to free agency. Instead of admitting it,  Scot just doubles down on everything but the point.

I'm just taking your theory at face value.

Your own statements...

2 hours ago, top dawg said:

Players can sign anywhere when they are free agents. They do talk. And believe it or not reputations, negative or positive, are earned.  So,  yeah,  releasing players in a negative way,  especially star players, future HOFers,  or men known to be stand-up individuals, like Beason, can have negative repercussions. 

 

1 hour ago, top dawg said:

I think it's true to a point,  but the big difference is that college players are glorified kids. Grown ass men who are paid professionals are only going to put up with so much. And,  it's a new day in time too?!

 

41 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Are you suggesting that GMs and coaches don't  develop reputations, positive or negative, that can affect their ability to sign free agents? 

Are you saying that Gettleman wasn't basically scoffed at by several players upon his firing,  at least one of which is well regarded as being a class act, one which was tops at his game at the time, and another who is a future HOFer? Are you denying that there was seemingly more tension than usual between some more men of high character in the building when Gettleman was GM here? 

Surely you aren't suggesting that.  

Now you can believe what you want,  or spin it however you want,  but to say that these types of things don't have an effect in the minds of potential free agents is either just utterly ignorant,  dumb,  naive,  or just plain silly (your favorite word). 

Now, I can honestly say I've never heard a single free agent say they signed with a team because the GM was nice or declined to sign because the GM was a jerk. They make choices based on things like money, system fit, coaches, teammates, tax rates, school systems and other things, all of which seem like they'd be a bigger deal than whether the GM made someone else mad when they cut him.

But if you believe it's that big a deal, then based on your own words you should have no issue predicting that free agents will avoid the Giants because of Gettleman.

I'm just asking you to stand by your own expressed ideas.

[AggieLean]

12 minutes ago, top dawg said:

And to your acting insinuation that all the players were a bunch of whining babies not used to be having like professionals,  that's so damned convenient that it's incredulous.  The constant here was Gettleman and his behavior. The ONLY one that was really overly petty was D-Will.  

Goes back to everyone is held to a higher standard but the “leaders.” 

You see, it’s ok for Gettleman to act an a**. Him being unprofessional probably wouldn’t even be seen as being unprofessional in the eyes of quite a few in here. I guarantee you if he takes a shot at Jerry Richardson and the Panthers in the future, many of the posters in here will feel he has that right but will come down hard on Steve Smith for doing the same thing. I’ve always agreed with Smith being cut. It was time, but the way they did it was wrong. Smith had every right to lash out. It’s like you say, Deangelo is the only one who has truly been unprofessional.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, top dawg said:

He said that Rivera was cowardly avoiding him.  And I can see how he's think that if Ron were avoiding him.  He had had his "nuff" with the entire situation.  He was rightfully upset.  Ron was probably avoiding him after Gettleman put him in the situation. 

Ah yes, Smith wasn't petty and if Rivera was criticized, Gettleman had to be at fault.

Yeah

[top dawg]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm just taking your theory at face value.

Your own statements...

 

 

Now, I can honestly say I've never heard a single free agent say they signed with a team because the GM was nice or declined to sign because the GM was a jerk. They make choices based on things like money, system fit, coaches, teammates, tax rates, school systems and other things, all of which seem like they'd be a bigger deal than whether the GM made someone else mad when they cut him.

But if you believe it's that big a deal, then based on your own words you should have no issue predicting that free agents will avoid the Giants because of Gettleman.

I'm just asking you to stand by your own expressed ideas.

How about you prove to me that they don't take the way that players are treated on a personal and professional level into account. Prove that! 

[Mr. Scot]

15 minutes ago, Moo Daeng said:

Clearly the only possible realities are that Gettleman is a heartless and savage scrooge and Hurney is an emo pal of everyone who does everything by emotion. 

I'll go back to what I said before.

Gettleman wasn't perfect, and not every move Hurney made was wrong.  But big picture: Hurney only had three winning seasons out of eleven.  Gettleman presided over the most successful period in Panthers history.

The one consistent problem running through the entire thread of Panthers history is Jerry Richardson.  And it's no accident that the best era the team had came at a time when he was the most hands off.  Unfortunately, he wanted to be hands on again (no workplace misconduct pun intended) and here we are.

We're getting a new owner, which means we'll likely wind up with a better qualified GM.  All the past principals will be gone and it'll be a whole new ballgame.  What the season between now and then will look like, no one can say.  Many of us who sat through all eleven seasons of Hurney Part One have...misgivings, but we'll see. 

 

[top dawg]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Ah yes, Smith wasn't petty and if Rivera was criticized, Gettleman had to be at fault.

Yeah

Ah yes,  Gettleman was the faultless and blameless General Manager that did no wrong, and all the ills of the Panthers can be laid at the feet of Ron Rivera. 

Yeah 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, top dawg said:

How about you prove to me that they don't take the way that players are treated on a personal and professional level into account. Prove that! 

Prove a negative? Sure.

I actually can point to numerous situations (Kevin Greene, Lance Briggs, Kam Chancellor, Joey Bosa, even Tshimanga Biakabutuka) where extremely contentious situations arose where it looks like all bridges were burned but afterward everything was fined and nobody else cited those incidents as reasons not to go to a particular team.

All the factors mentioned in the prior post are real, grown up reasons why guys make free agent decisions.  So unless you believe a guy is gonna go to his wife and say "Honey, I know the money's good here, the area's nice, the schools are great and we'll be paying significantly lower taxes, but I just can't sign here because the GM was nasty to this guy he cut before" then I'm afraid your idea doesn't hold up.