Panthers Converted OT Matt Kalil's $10M Option Bonus Into A Signing Bonus Guaranteeing He'll Be On Roster In 2018

[Proudiddy]

[carpanfan96]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

So if this is all true and not just your interpretation,, it should be fairly easy for you to find a source that backs it up.

You have that, or are you going to tell me you don't need it because you understand contracts?

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/matt-kalil-9814/

 

 

here

Per a source with knowledge of the deal, the Panthers have to decide between the first and fifth day of the 2018 league year whether to exercise a $10 million option bonus for 2021, with a $10 million non-exercise fee for 2018. The only way to avoid the option bonus or the fee is to cut him or trade him before the deadline for exercising the option.

 

https://theriotreport.com/contract-breakdown-matt-kalil/

If the Panthers decide not to spread the bonus (which becomes much more likely if Kalil does not deliver this season), his cap hit would actually be much higher in 2018 ($14.25M)

 

[Mr. Scot]

13 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/matt-kalil-9814/

 

 

here

Per a source with knowledge of the deal, the Panthers have to decide between the first and fifth day of the 2018 league year whether to exercise a $10 million option bonus for 2021, with a $10 million non-exercise fee for 2018. The only way to avoid the option bonus or the fee is to cut him or trade him before the deadline for exercising the option.

 

https://theriotreport.com/contract-breakdown-matt-kalil/

If the Panthers decide not to spread the bonus (which becomes much more likely if Kalil does not deliver this season), his cap hit would actually be much higher in 2018 ($14.25M)

 

Problem: That doesn't say what you claim it says.

They didn't avoid the bonus by cutting or trading him. Instead, they guaranteed it by changing it to a signing bonus.

There's nothing whatsoever in that link saying that it was going to be converted to salary this year. In fact, the chart lists the option bonus as being 2.5 million per year over four years.

Basically, you're either misinterpreting what they wrote or just plain making stuff up to be an a--hole.

[carpanfan96]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Problem: That doesn't say what you claim it says.

They didn't avoid the bonus by cutting or trading him. Instead, they guaranteed it by changing it to a signing bonus.

There's nothing whatsoever in that link saying that it was going to be converted to salary this year. In fact, the chart lists the option bonus as being 2.5 million per year over four years.

Basically, you're either misinterpreting what they wrote or just plain making stuff up to be an a--hole.

That's what the 10m non exercise fee is, it's written in both of those articles and laid out plainly in the cap page. 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, carpanfan96 said:

That's what the 10m non exercise fee is, it's written in both of those articles and laid out plainly in the cap page. 

Except it's not, and it doesn't back up a single thing you said.  Were you perhaps counting on the notion that I wouldn't read it all?

Afraid I did, and I also noticed that you conveniently left this part out.

Quote

There is a potential out after the 2018 season with $7.2M in dead cap money if Kalil is released after June 1. While 7.2 million dollars is nothing to sneeze at, that dead cap money actually spreads over 2019 ($2.4M) & 2020 ($4.8M), so if the Panthers part ways with Kalil after 2018, they will actually save $10.35M (5.4%) in 2019 cap space.

That out has now effectively been flushed down the toilet. Kalil is guaranteed to be on roster not only this year but through next year as well.  And the option bonus remains prorated for cap purposes, Kalil gets it all now.  Thus, this only benefits the team gets is if he retires or is suspended.

Nice attempt at spin.  Unfortunately, everything you said was wrong.

[falconidae]

4 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

As much as I distrust Hurney's GM skills, it's still really difficult for me to believe that the team would do this without some kind of cap benefit. And at some point, perhaps someone with inside knowledge will be able to explain what that is.

Right now though, the only people with inside info who are talking about it say it offers no savings at all. It gives Kalil 10 million up front and basically ensures that he'll be guarding Newton's blind side through both this year and next year at least.

Doesn't make sense to me either, but that's all we've got so far.

Until we hear something different, it sounds like that's the story (and everyone is sticking to it).

 

3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I think changing 10 million dollars from an option to a guarantee could be considered beneficial to the player.

Making it harder to cut him after this year would fall into that category too.

Think the only reason that Sportrac says there's no benefit is because they'd already broken the option bonus up, before the Panthers exercised it. You can see that here, at an archived page at sportrac from November 2017 [courtesy of wayback machine]

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20171028155817/http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/matt-kalil-9814/

 

compare to current  page:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/matt-kalil-9814/

 

 

See how the option bonus [which can't be prorated] is prorated even though it hadn't been changed to a signing bonus? They assumed, logically enough, that the Panthers were going to do that. 

If the Panthers had not exercised the bonus, the cap hit for Kalil for 2018 would have been 11 mil, the original 1 mil salary plus the 10 mil of option bonus converted to salary. Panthers save 3 mil + this year in cap room with the conversion.  

 

Also note that they had a 10 mil dead money cap hit if they released him this year, which pretty much means he wasn't going to be released this year anyway.

You can argue they should have just taken the hit this year, and I would agree, but it's hard to find tackles in this league.

edited:

From both pages:

2018 Option Bonus: $10M (must be exercised by 3/19/2018)
If not exercised, the $10M converts to salary, and $11M 2018 salary fully guarantees

The Panthers either had to cut him or pay him by 3.19.

 

Edited again. That's 11 mil in salary, plus another 3 mil or so in prorated bonuses, so move saves them about 8 mil in cap space this year. At the cost of having to keep him on the roster for another year.  

 

[carpanfan96]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Except it's not, and it doesn't back up a single thing you said.  Were you perhaps counting on the notion that I wouldn't read it all?

Afraid I did, and I also noticed that you conveniently left this part out.

That out has now effectively been flushed down the toilet. Kalil is guaranteed to be on roster not only this year but through next year as well.  And the option bonus remains prorated for cap purposes, Kalil gets it all now.  Thus, this only benefits the team gets is if he retires or is suspended.

Nice attempt at spin.  Unfortunately, everything you said was wrong.

no it wasn't. lmao

 

read the whole article. 

 

10m non exercise fee for 2018, which if you know how non exercise fees work. (if not look at Steve mcnairs old contract) 

 

Here’s where things gets confusing. The option bonus (7th column) which reads $2.5M from 2018-2021 is a $10M bonus which does not have to be spread out over those four years. If the Panthers decide not to spread the bonus (which becomes much more likely if Kalil does not deliver this season), his cap hit would actually be much higher in 2018 ($14.25M), but much more palatable down the road (the aforementioned $2.4M in 2019 & $4.8M in 2020). Confused yet?

 

So like I originally said, if they didn't exercise his option bonus his salary this year would go up as would his cap hit. Written out for you as plain as day. To assist since you missed it, I highlighted it, underlined it and bolded it for you. 

 

The only way to cut him after this season and save was to pay the non exercise fee and team didn't want to do that because of the cap hit jump for 2018. From 6.75 million to 14.25. 

[grimesgoat]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Except it's not, and it doesn't back up a single thing you said.  Were you perhaps counting on the notion that I wouldn't read it all?

Afraid I did, and I also noticed that you conveniently left this part out.

That out has now effectively been flushed down the toilet. Kalil is guaranteed to be on roster not only this year but through next year as well.  And the option bonus remains prorated for cap purposes, Kalil gets it all now.  Thus, this only benefits the team gets is if he retires or is suspended.

Nice attempt at spin.  Unfortunately, everything you said was wrong.

You need to keep reading from the same paragraph. 

The option bonus (7th column) which reads $2.5M from 2018-2021 is a $10M bonus which does not have to be spread out over those four years. If the Panthers decide not to spread the bonus (which becomes much more likely if Kalil does not deliver this season), his cap hit would actually be much higher in 2018 ($14.25M), but much more palatable down the road

It seems clear the Panthers decided to pick up the option to spread the bonus.  Probably because they did not have a lot of wiggle room with the cap relative to what they need.  Had they not chosen to spread the bonus, his hit would be 14m instead of around 7m in 2018.  This is also how I have interpreted this,  but I do not have the actual contract to look at.  Just the sportrac notes and the link provided above that explains things.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, carpanfan96 said:

no it wasn't. lmao

read the whole article.

10m non exercise fee for 2018, which if you know how non exercise fees work. (if not look at Steve mcnairs old contract)

Here’s where things gets confusing. The option bonus (7th column) which reads $2.5M from 2018-2021 is a $10M bonus which does not have to be spread out over those four years. If the Panthers decide not to spread the bonus (which becomes much more likely if Kalil does not deliver this season), his cap hit would actually be much higher in 2018 ($14.25M), but much more palatable down the road (the aforementioned $2.4M in 2019 & $4.8M in 2020). Confused yet?

Here's where you messed up.

Quote

The option bonus (7th column) which reads $2.5M from 2018-2021 is a $10M bonus which does not have to be spread out over those four years. If the Panthers decide not to spread the bonus (which becomes much more likely if Kalil does not deliver this season)

The bonus was already spread out.  The Panthers could have chosen to convert it all to this season, but they didn't.  Instead, they converted it to a signing bonus, which has three effects:

• It makes it guaranteed fully instead of it being an annual option
• It gives Kalil the money up front
• It makes the potential dead money for next year much higher, robbing us of our "out

And may I point out, all of these things are outlined in the link that you quoted.

So congratulations.  You just helped yourself lose an argument.

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

You need to keep reading from the same paragraph. 

The option bonus (7th column) which reads $2.5M from 2018-2021 is a $10M bonus which does not have to be spread out over those four years. If the Panthers decide not to spread the bonus (which becomes much more likely if Kalil does not deliver this season), his cap hit would actually be much higher in 2018 ($14.25M), but much more palatable down the road

It seems clear the Panthers decided to pick up the option to spread the bonus.  Probably because they did not have a lot of wiggle room with the cap relative to what they need.  Had they not chosen to spread the bonus, his hit would be 14m instead of around 7m in 2018.  This is also how I have interpreted this,  but I do not have the actual contract to look at.  Just the sportrac notes and the link provided above that explains things.

Look at the chart again.  The bonus was already spread.  They could have chosen not to spread it out, which the article indicates would have been a response to him playing badly.

The idea would have been to go ahead and eat a bigger cap hit this year but save money down the road.  What they did today not only saved nothing, but actually made it harder to release him next year.

Sorry dude, but you've got it wrong.

[CatTower]

So why did we do it if it's a net negative?  Surely, there has to be some type of positive out of this move?  Or is the front office run by buffoons? 

[Mr. Scot]

14 minutes ago, falconidae said:

Think the only reason that Sportrac says there's no benefit is because they'd already broken the option bonus up, before the Panthers exercised it. You can see that here, at an archived page at sportrac from November 2017 [courtesy of wayback machine]

https://web.archive.org/web/20171028155817/http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/matt-kalil-9814/

compare to current  page:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/matt-kalil-9814/

See how the option bonus [which can't be prorated] is prorated even though it hadn't been changed to a signing bonus? They assumed, logically enough, that the Panthers were going to do that. 

If the Panthers had not exercised the bonus, the cap hit for Kalil for 2018 would have been 11 mil, the original 1 mil salary plus the 10 mil of option bonus converted to salary. Panthers save 3 mil + this year in cap room with the conversion.

Also note that they had a 10 mil dead money cap hit if they released him this year, which pretty much means he wasn't going to be released this year anyway.

You can argue they should have just taken the hit this year, and I would agree, but it's hard to find tackles in this league.

Saw all that.  It explains why people couldn't understand their not being a cap savings.

People assumed that the option bonus would have all counted this season.  Instead, it was already spread out over four years, the same way a signing bonus would be.  The difference is that a signing bonus is guaranteed when an option bonus isn't.

No, he wasn't going to be released this year, but could have been released next year without it being too painful.  Not so anymore.

[grimesgoat]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Here's where you messed up.

The bonus was already spread out.  The Panthers could have chosen to convert it all to this season, but they didn't.  Instead, they converted it to a signing bonus, which has three effects:

• It makes it guaranteed fully instead of it being an annual option
• It gives Kalil the money up front
• It makes the potential dead money for next year much higher, robbing us of our "out

And may I point out, all of these things are outlined in the link that you quoted.

So congratulations.  You just helped yourself lose an argument.

You may be referring to the signing bonus, which is spread out over 5 years.  But there is a "restructure" bonus that is spread over 4 years and happens to add up to 10m.  I'm pretty sure that is the "option" the panthers chose to exercise in lieu of paying it all in 2018 as part of his base salary.  The other option would have been to cut him outright, but the hit from that would have been 19m+.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, CatTower said:

So why did we do it if it's a net negative?  Surely, there has to be some type of positive out of this move?  Or is the front office run by buffoons? 

It's a net nothing as far as this season goes.  Nothing changes.

The difference comes in next season, where it becomes more expensive to release him than it would have been.