Panthers continue to hold out for Hurney

[heel31ok]

10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Ron: We're up two scores midway through the 3rd quarter, time to shut the offense down and let the defense try to hold on.

Again,TURNER changes that...just what the Doctor ordered...

[ras977]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Believe it or not, there are some indications that he might actually be worse than we even know.

Could you elaborate ?

[sharkkiller]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Believe it or not, there are some indications that he might actually be worse than we even know.

Sorry Scot, but you are reaching now. What indications are those?

[panther4life]

9 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

Ron Rivera never had a winning season in Carolina until Hurney was fired. Since that time Rivera has been to the playoffs 4 out of the past 5 seasons. Marty may have had the "interim" title this past year, but he didn't conduct the draft or handle the FA period. The 2017 Panthers were essentially (for better or worse) Gettleman's team.

Prior to that, he worked with John Fox for about 9 seasons. They had 3 playoff seasons together, but didn't record a record better than .500 in the other 6 seasons. When he left before the 2013 season we had one of the worst and most overpaid rosters in the league

The consistently good/great teams in the NFL build thru the draft. You have to make good choices beyond the 1st round. Look at some of the players Marty picked in the crucial 2nd and 3rd rounds in the draft:

Jimmy Clauson, Keary Colbert, Sherrod Martin, Rashad Butler, Armani Edwards, Eric Shelton, Dwayne Jarrett, Terrell Mclain, Sione Fua, Everette Brown, Attiyyah Ellison.

I haven't even mentioned the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th round busts. When you factor in the bad contracts he gave out to maintain our FA's his tenure looks even worse. Let's not forget how he traded away 1st round picks to move up in the draft to get players that ultimately failed to produce over the long haul or at all. We didn't even have 1st round choices 2009 and 2010. Our first picks in those drafts were in the 2nd round and we came away with Everette Brown and Jimmy Clausen. Need I say more?

No one here has a problem with Marty the person. I think most of us would support him if he were named Team President. We have a problems with Marty as the architect of the Carolina Panther roster. Unless he's surrounded by a top scouting/coaching staff that heavily influences his final decision, I don't think Marty knows how to evaluate talent well enough to build a contending team year in and year out.

 

Well to be fair Rivera only coached us for 2 years under Hurney. Also the whole playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons under Gettleman has a major asterisk next to it due us making it in with 7 wins thanks to the south being complete poo. We did not beat 1 team with a winning record in 2014 and 4 of those wins came against the other NFC south teams who couldn’t beat us out for the division. 

This isn’t so much about defending Hurney as it is exposing Gettleman. He sucked. Point blank.

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, ras977 said:

Could you elaborate ?

Not without asking, but I'll check.

[heel31ok]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Not without asking, but I'll check.

Area 51...

[ras977]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Not without asking, but I'll check.

Thanks

[The Righteous Troll]

Just now, panther4life said:

Well to be fair Rivera only coached us for 2 years under Hurney. Also the whole playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons under Gettleman has a major asterisk next to it due us making it in with 7 wins thanks to the south being complete poo. We did not beat 1 team with a winning record in 2014 and 4 of those wins came against the other NFC south teams who couldn’t beat us out for the division. 

This isn’t so much about defending Hurney as it is exposing Gettleman. He sucked. Point blank.

Dilly Dilly!

Seriously I do prefer Hurney over Getlteman but if your asking me to pick between those two and a new GM completely...I'm taking the new GM  everytime.

 

[The Righteous Troll]

29 minutes ago, heel31ok said:

How so...the fears expressed on a message board? 

The franchise is literally paralyzed right now because of him. Tina is suppose to be COO but let's be honest she is probably just taking orders from Jerome on who should be GM. This has been a buildup from the team president stepping down, firing Gettleman before training camp instead of after the season, and just staying in the comfort zone and rehiring Hurney.

 

[sharkkiller]

58 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

I want to believe you, but I really feel the opposite of that for a number of reasons, some that have nothing to do with Hurney. I love the team, but I'm in a bit of a pessimistic mood and here's why:

• We have no leadership at the top of the organization. No owner, no real GM, nothing at the moment other than Tina.
• Cam hasn't been the same since his MVP season. He's hurt often, and taking too many hits, I worry about his longevity. Add onto that, he isn't the most prolific pure passer in the league and he relies on his running ability to make him a top threat at the position. While he shows flashes of being an elite passer, they are just that, flashes. At this point in his career, I would like to see more consistency while throwing from our franchise QB. Before the white knights come to defend Cam, I'm not saying he sucks, I'm saying he's inconsistent. 
• Our WR1 is a borderline WR1, but best suited as a WR2. I don't think he's garbage by any means, just not the best.
• We have no weapons for said QB other than an aging TE and a RB who is a legitimate slot receiver who was underutlized in our offensive scheme.
• Rivera plays not to lose instead of to win. It's caused us to blow leads numerous times and it's annoying
• We are changing both coordinator positions, and offensive installs specifically, take time. Time we don't have.
• The division has gotten stronger the past few years. We won it three in a row, but the saints knocked last year's draft out of the park, and Falcons were able to make it back to the playoffs last year after the super bowl, something we weren't able to do. 
• Speaking of the Saints, they swept us. That has nothing to do with next year, that just sucked.
• The defense is old and underperformed last year. Our second year corners also took a step backwards, as did Coleman. We have no long term solution in place to replace peppers or Addison if they drop off this year.
• We may have been 11-5 last year but we certainly played like an 8-8 team at best.
• Our schedule next season is absolutely brutal. 
• We have never had back to back winning records
• We have the ability to re-sign Norwell, but it would require Hurney to release his buddies Ryan Kalil and Stewart, who are both aging vets at the tail end of their careers, not great in their prime players. Nothing he has done in the past has given me any indication that he would make said moves for the betterment of the team, and that makes me a sad panda.

There are a few other reasons but they are escaping me at the moment. Either way, I'm less thrilled with the direction the team is heading after this season than I was at the beginning of last season. 

Let's look at these one by one, shall we?

• We have no leadership at the top of the organization. No owner, no real GM, nothing at the moment other than Tina. True enough for now. Although that should change sooner rather than later. 
• Cam hasn't been the same since his MVP season. He's hurt often, and taking too many hits, I worry about his longevity. Add onto that, he isn't the most prolific pure passer in the league and he relies on his running ability to make him a top threat at the position. While he shows flashes of being an elite passer, they are just that, flashes. At this point in his career, I would like to see more consistency while throwing from our franchise QB. Before the white knights come to defend Cam, I'm not saying he sucks, I'm saying he's inconsistent. Again, true enough, but most of the problems with Cam tend to come from subpar protection. 
• Our WR1 is a borderline WR1, but best suited as a WR2. I don't think he's garbage by any means, just not the best. I think the WR1 vs WR2 thing is way overblown in our offense. Do we need a WR? Yes. Does it need to be Antonio Brown or Julio Jones? No. We do not need a complete overhaul, just replace 1 receiver, unless Samuel or Byrd cannot get healthy, then we need 2.
• We have no weapons for said QB other than an aging TE and a RB who is a legitimate slot receiver who was underutlized in our offensive scheme. This should be fixed for the future with Turner. I have faith that he will actually use CMC correctly.
• Rivera plays not to lose instead of to win. It's caused us to blow leads numerous times and it's annoying. Yes it is. I agree with you on this point. It seems like the Riverboat has run aground for the past few years.
• We are changing both coordinator positions, and offensive installs specifically, take time. Time we don't have. It is not a completely new system. Shula ran a version of the same offense, so it will not take as much time to get it installed. Same thing with the defense. We are not switching to a 3-4 or a WCO.
• The division has gotten stronger the past few years. We won it three in a row, but the saints knocked last year's draft out of the park, and Falcons were able to make it back to the playoffs last year after the super bowl, something we weren't able to do. The Saints will be good again next year, but the Falcons are coming back to earth. Both teams have QBs that need new deals and will seriously hurt their chances at getting any FA's. 
• Speaking of the Saints, they swept us. That has nothing to do with next year, that just sucked. It does suck, but we should have really won one or two of those games. Shula cost us and he is gone.
• The defense is old and underperformed last year. Our second year corners also took a step backwards, as did Coleman. We have no long term solution in place to replace peppers or Addison if they drop off this year. The main problem there was Wilkes and his fancy blitzes. He left the corners alone on islands too often. Hall should benefit from playing behind Peppers for another year (if he comes back). Addison still has a few years left, because he was way under-utilized early in his career.
• We may have been 11-5 last year but we certainly played like an 8-8 team at best. I disagree with that statement. We beat the Super Bowl loser, and came very close to beating the Super Bowl winner. There were bad points, but overall the season was not as bad as some make it out to be.
• Our schedule next season is absolutely brutal. It does not seem that brutal to me:

Panthers 2018 Opponents
Home	Away
Falcons	Falcons
Saints	Saints
Buccaneers	Buccaneers
Cowboys	Eagles
Giants	Redskins
Ravens	Browns
Bengals	Steelers
Seahawks	Lions

Toughest games outside of the division are Seattle at home (with a defense that is falling apart), Ravens at home (still not a big deal), Eagles away (tough game, but we played them close last year), and the Steelers away (tough game, but you never know). The rest should be easy by NFL standards. But you can't really know what to expect this early in the process.

• We have never had back to back winning records True, but with Turner in place, Wilkes and his blitz every  play defensive strategy gone, we have the team to buck that trend.
• We have the ability to re-sign Norwell, but it would require Hurney to release his buddies Ryan Kalil and Stewart, who are both aging vets at the tail end of their careers, not great in their prime players. Nothing he has done in the past has given me any indication that he would make said moves for the betterment of the team, and that makes me a sad panda. Not sure that keeping Norwell would be worth losing both of them. We should be able to do it with some extensions. But we also have Moton waiting in the wings who could step in for Norwell if he moves on. I have a feeling Norwell is going to price himself out of Carolina, and that is not Hurney's fault.

[Ricky Spanish]

3 minutes ago, sharkkiller said:

 

• We have the ability to re-sign Norwell, but it would require Hurney to release his buddies Ryan Kalil and Stewart, who are both aging vets at the tail end of their careers, not great in their prime players. Nothing he has done in the past has given me any indication that he would make said moves for the betterment of the team, and that makes me a sad panda. Not sure that keeping Norwell would be worth losing both of them. We should be able to do it with some extensions. But we also have Moton waiting in the wings who could step in for Norwell if he moves on. I have a feeling Norwell is going to price himself out of Carolina, and that is not Hurney's fault.

To respond to that last point, I feel like one Norwell and one Larsen is better than one Kalil and one Stewart at this point in their careers. In their prime? No. Right now? Yes. I would hope we would take a look at Moton at Tackle next year to push the other kalil, and to utilize as a potential plan B if and when we cut him next season for underperforming when we have an out within his contract. 

[sharkkiller]

4 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

To respond to that last point, I feel like one Norwell is better than one Kalil and one Stewart at this point in their careers. In their prime? No. Right now? Yes. I would hope would take a look at MOton at Tackle next year to push the other kalil, and to utilize as a potential plan B if and when we cut him next season for underperforming. 

I would rather get rid of Stewart than Kalil. The line performed much better when he was in there this past season. Larsen did admirably, but it just wasn't the same. But Getting rid of both for Norwell just doesn't make sense. I like Norwell, and hope he stays, but I just think some other team with cap space to spare is going to overpay for him.

Plus I think Star is gone, so that frees up some space as well.

[Daddy_Uncle]

Jerry Richardson shouldn't be allowed to make the decision on this

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, sharkkiller said:

The line performed much better when he was in there this past season.

Honestly, that's what I had thought too. Until I looked at the stats. I couldn't find anything in our offensive statistics to back it up. If anything, we seemed to perform slightly better as an offense with Larsen at center.