ESPN Article on Raven Scouting (Somewhat Panther Related)

[SCO96]

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/269065/ravens-believe-misses-in-first-three-rounds-might-stem-from-overanalysis

I ran across this during some downtime at work. The Ravens owner, Steve Biscotti, feels like the front office has done a poor job in recent years drafting players in the first 3 rounds. I'm going to paste some of the article below.

Baltimore Ravens owner Steve Bisciotti wants to add more experience to the scouting department as well as alter the evaluation process after recent drafts haven't lived up to the usual standards, especially in the early rounds.

Since winning Super Bowl XLVII, the Ravens have drafted 17 players in the first three rounds and only one (linebacker C.J. Mosley) has gone to a Pro Bowl. In fact, among those first- and second-rounders, there are nearly as many players no longer with the team (safety Matt Elam, linebacker Arthur Brown, defensive tackle Timmy Jernigan and safety Terrence Brooks) as projected starters for the team in 2018 (Mosley, defensive tackle Brandon Williams, defensive end Carl Davis, offensive tackle Ronnie Stanley and cornerback Marlon Humphrey).

Compare that to the Ravens' first 17 drafts when Baltimore used the first two rounds to select two Hall of Famers (Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis), three NFL defensive players of the year (Lewis, Ed Reed and Terrell Suggs), a 2,000-yard rusher (Jamal Lewis), a Super Bowl MVP quarterback (Joe Flacco) as well as the franchise's all-time leader in combined yards (Ray Rice) and touchdown catches (Todd Heap).

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Biscotti goes on to say that a lot of the older scouts have moved on and have been replaced by younger/less experienced people which has hurt the team.

One of the reasons I'd like to see another candidate, like Dawson (or anyone who has worked as a scout), get a shot at the GM job is because Marty Hurney had way too many misses in the rounds Biscotti, mentioned above. He never demonstrated the ability to consistently bring in talented players that could have a significant impact on team. Look at some of the misses he had in the past in the first 3 rounds: Jimmy Clauson, Keary Colbert, Sherrod Martin, Rashad Butler, Armani Edwards, Eric Shelton, Dwayne Jarrett, Terrell Mclain, Sione Fua, Everette Brown, Attiyyah Ellison). I know no GM bats 100%, but you should at least bat .500. Hurney wasn't even close to that.

I do believe Hurney has learned his lesson on overpaying players and screwing up the salary cap. But, I don't think that in and of itself is going to help him with talent evaluation. Does anyone else feel this way? And, does anyone here even know who we have in our scouting department and how we rate to the other FO's around the league in terms of scouting experience?

 

 

 

[The Lobo]

All the more reason to bring in Dawson. “Dawson’s Lake”

[vanilla B]

17 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/269065/ravens-believe-misses-in-first-three-rounds-might-stem-from-overanalysis

I ran across this during some downtime at work. The Ravens owner, Steve Biscotti, feels like the front office has done a poor job in recent years drafting players in the first 3 rounds. I'm going to paste some of the article below.

Baltimore Ravens owner Steve Bisciotti wants to add more experience to the scouting department as well as alter the evaluation process after recent drafts haven't lived up to the usual standards, especially in the early rounds.

Since winning Super Bowl XLVII, the Ravens have drafted 17 players in the first three rounds and only one (linebacker C.J. Mosley) has gone to a Pro Bowl. In fact, among those first- and second-rounders, there are nearly as many players no longer with the team (safety Matt Elam, linebacker Arthur Brown, defensive tackle Timmy Jernigan and safety Terrence Brooks) as projected starters for the team in 2018 (Mosley, defensive tackle Brandon Williams, defensive end Carl Davis, offensive tackle Ronnie Stanley and cornerback Marlon Humphrey).

Compare that to the Ravens' first 17 drafts when Baltimore used the first two rounds to select two Hall of Famers (Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis), three NFL defensive players of the year (Lewis, Ed Reed and Terrell Suggs), a 2,000-yard rusher (Jamal Lewis), a Super Bowl MVP quarterback (Joe Flacco) as well as the franchise's all-time leader in combined yards (Ray Rice) and touchdown catches (Todd Heap).

----

Biscotti goes on to say that a lot of the older scouts have moved on and have been replaced by younger/less experienced people which has hurt the team.

One of the reasons I'd like to see another candidate, like Dawson (or anyone who has worked as a scout), get a shot at the GM job is because Marty Hurney had way too many misses in the rounds Biscotti, mentioned above. He never demonstrated the ability to consistently bring in talented players that could have a significant impact on team. Look at some of the misses he had in the past in the first 3 rounds: Jimmy Clauson, Keary Colbert, David Gettis, Armani Edwards, Eric Shelton, Dwayne Jarrett, Terrell Mclain, Sione Fua, Everette Brown, Attiyyah Ellison). I know no GM bats 100%, but you should at least bat .500. Hurney wasn't even close to that.

I do believe Hurney has learned his lesson on overpaying players and screwing up the salary cap. But, I don't think that in and of itself is going to help him with talent evaluation. Does anyone else feel this way? And, does anyone here even know who we have in our scouting department and how we rate to the other FO's around the league in terms of scouting experience?

 

 

 

Fair points, but Gettis was a 6th round pick, won't really fault him for that not working out.  

[SCO96]

16 minutes ago, vanilla B said:

Fair points, but Gettis was a 6th round pick, won't really fault him for that not working out.  

Oops.  Good pickup. I'll go edit the post and take that out. Unfortunately, I'll be able to pick from several other 2-3 round busts and replace his name with theirs.

[thefuzz]

Newsome got a LOT of credit...and I'm not real sure why.

 

That's typically a tough division, but they have been average for way too long.

[SCO96]

8 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Newsome got a LOT of credit...and I'm not real sure why.

 

That's typically a tough division, but they have been average for way too long.

I'm not that familiar with the Ravens FO. It seems like Ozzy did a good job for a long time but in recent years he hasn't been as successful. If you read the entire article, Biscotti feels that their best scouts have moved on to other jobs or retired. Their replacements are younger/less experienced and are doing a poor job evaluating the incoming classes. The players are at the top of their draft boards are over valued and this has resulted in some poor drafts since the last Super Bowl win.

[pantherclaw]

Having a good scouting department is paramount. 

I'm not convinced a GM candidate that wasn't a scout, isn't qualified to be a GM. Obviously a GM that has been a scout has forms his own opnion, not always based on the scouting department. 

All this is a moot point when it comes to the draft, because, since Seifert, no one person has made a draft selection on their own. The coaches get their input with the choice/decision as well. 

 

[Johnny Rockets]

24 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Having a good scouting department is paramount. 

I'm not convinced a GM candidate that wasn't a scout, isn't qualified to be a GM. Obviously a GM that has been a scout has forms his own opnion, not always based on the scouting department. 

All this is a moot point when it comes to the draft, because, since Seifert, no one person has made a draft selection on their own. The coaches get their input with the choice/decision as well. 

 

Steve Smith was saying a couple of weeks ago that the Ravens Scouting / Analytics department is the biggest he's ever seen. Said they have 100+ people on staff that all they do is crunch scouting and game data. That seemed excessive to me but I don't know what the norm is. 

[thefuzz]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Rockets said:

Steve Smith was saying a couple of weeks ago that the Ravens Scouting / Analytics department is the biggest he's ever seen. Said they have 100+ people on staff that all they do is crunch scouting and game data. That seemed excessive to me but I don't know what the norm is. 

If that's the case...that is excessive compared to most teams.

[bababoey]

It all depends on listening.  You can be a good GM that was never a scout that knows what the coaches are looking for because he listen to them, knows who the scouts thinks are best because he listen to them, and then knows how to put the 2 different ideas together to make everyone happy.  Being a scout helps but communicating with people is much more important.

[Hotsauce]

“Look at some of the misses he had in the past in the first 3 rounds: Jimmy Clauson, Keary Colbert, Sherrod Martin, Rashad Butler, Armani Edwards, Eric Shelton, Dwayne Jarrett, Terrell Mclain, Sione Fua, Everette Brown, Attiyyah Ellison)”

This list makes me nauseous 

[Johnny Rockets]

28 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

If that's the case...that is excessive compared to most teams.

That was the point he was making and he didn't seem to be exaggerating. He gave the exact number they had and it was like 113 or 123. Was pointing out the quantity of resources they dedicate to scouting and analytics compared to many other teams. 

[The Righteous Troll]

Ozzie Newsome is one of the best in the business but he has been missing more than hitting lately. Seems like their safeties are always in legal trouble (Matt Elam/Marlon Humphries) and they never really replaced Ray Rice. They have hit on a few (Brandon Williams/CJ Mosley) but it looks like Flacco got paid and now has said eff it.