The case to release Ryan Kalil, JStew, and CJ

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

I don't play the "He could miss a lot of time" game. 

He's the leader along the line, is still one of the best centers in the league.  

He's more than worth it. 

It's not that he "could" miss a lot of games. Anyone could miss a lot of games. It's that his recent history says that he's very likely to miss a lot of games. These are things you have to consider before you eat a $10M cap hit and let a top young OG walk. Would you rather have an injury prone aging center for one more year or Norwell for the next 4-5? That might be the decision we're faced with. IMO it's an absolute no-brainer. 

[pantherclaw]

His last two seasons says nothing on this up coming season. Keep that poo to yourself. 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, pantherclaw said:

His last two seasons says nothing on this up coming season. Keep that poo to yourself. 

 

Yeah, aging players who become injury prone late in their careers often find the fountain of youth and all of a sudden become reliable again.

Stop being dumb.

[CRA]

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Ryan Kalil has missed 18 games in 2 seasons, playing in a total of 15 games (including playoffs) at a cost of over $20m.  Worth it? 

2017 6 games

2016 8 games

http://www.nfl.com/player/ryankalil/2495655/profile

Ryan has already announced his plan to play another season, which if you follow the recent trend, means we should expect 4 games from him.  (kidding?) His cap figure  is over $10m, but we save about $7m for  sending him away now. 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/ryan-kalil-1229/

Jonathan Stewart Has averaged more than 4 yards per carry 2 of the last 6 seasons, and his progress is aligned with the research about the decline of running backs.  http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/123542/inside-slant-running-back-cliff-after-age-27

Using this as a basic formula, Stewart, whose total yardage is higher than the average, is likely to average somewhere between 3.0 and 3.2 yards per carry in 2018.  During Stewart's first five season, he averaged close to 5.0 yards per carry.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/11247/jonathan-stewart

Charles Johnson made or assisted in 54 tackles and had 4 sacks--over the past 3 seasons.  To put that into perspective, the three seasons before that, he had 113 tackles and 32 sacks.  Wes Horton, fwiw,  playing behind CJ over the past 3 seasons (fewer snaps) had 35 tackles and 9 sacks over the same 3-year period.  

http://www.nfl.com/player/charlesjohnson/2507187/profile

Cap Savings to release all 3 players: approximately $13.75m

• Ryan Kalil: $6.8 m
• Charles Johnson: $3.25 m
• Jonathan Stewart: $3.7 m

While Marty would never release his "big name" draft picks, a new GM might.

also worth noting, his back up did a dang fine job

[pantherclaw]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, aging players who become injury prone late in their careers often find the fountain of youth and all of a sudden become reliable again.

Stop being dumb.

Dumb is saying a player is going to get hurt again based on his previous injuries. 

I got news for you,  every player can get hurt any year in the NFL. That's the reality of it.

His age doesn't concern me, as centers can play well into their late 30's.

We only have him one more year, so you'll get your wish soon enough.

 

[t96]

12 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

AGREED.  Which is why you could not do both.  Release Kalil and pay Norwell. 

Kalil getting released would have a very very minimal impact on signing Norwell. Unfortunately it’s unlikely we put that much cap space into two guards regardless of what we do with other players.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, thomas96 said:

Kalil getting released would have a very very minimal impact on signing Norwell. Unfortunately it’s unlikely we put that much cap space into two guards regardless of what we do with other players.

I wouldn't rule it out in the least if Hurney sticks around.

[Ace_Aladdin]

1 hour ago, grimesgoat said:

Cutting Adams and Jones is worth about 3m.  Finding similar talent will probably cost the same or more.

We can't cut Dickson/Gano - they are free agents. 

Not via draft

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Dumb is saying a player is going to get hurt again based on his previous injuries. 

I got news for you,  every player can get hurt any year in the NFL. That's the reality of it.

His age doesn't concern me, as centers can play well into their late 30's.

We only have him one more year, so you'll get your wish soon enough.

 

Do you understand probability? Because you're speaking in concrete terms while I'm speaking in terms of probability. 

Ryan missed half a season last year because he woke up with a crick in his neck.

[Ace_Aladdin]

2 hours ago, mjligon said:

Adams was literally the only person in our secondary who brought it every single week. He may be a dinosaur, but he isn’t going anywhere.

If we can retain him yes, but his role should be limited since his speed and explosiveness is gone. I have seen a lot of plays where he was beat on coverage due to speed and that’s not gonna cut it vs NFCS WRs.

 

Need a tall & rangy safety with speed  as a starter.

[OneBadCat]

CJ and Stew should definitely be considered for cuts. But Kalil is too good to cut despite his cost. Cutting him is a big risk for Cam Newton. Not a wise move to save pennies when we already need to consider replacements for Norwell and possibly Matt Kalil.

[LordOfDaWingz]

Time to move on from all 3. Idc about 2018 being anyone swan song, this is about the franchise, not a player.

[pantherclaw]

12 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Do you understand probability? Because you're speaking in concrete terms while I'm speaking in terms of probability. 

Ryan missed half a season last year because he woke up with a crick in his neck.

Do you understand he won't be cut? Definitely not before the draft.

He'll most likely be on the roster this up coming season. 

No matter how you feel about him.

[LinvilleGorge]

21 minutes ago, OneBadCat said:

CJ and Stew should definitely be considered for cuts. But Kalil is too good to cut despite his cost. Cutting him is a big risk for Cam Newton. Not a wise move to save pennies when we already need to consider replacements for Norwell and possibly Matt Kalil.

I would agree if there weren't huge cap savings to be had by moving on from Kalil, but there are. He missed 10 games last year. We rushed for 100+ yards in 8 of those 10 games. We also failed to rush for 100+ yards in 2 of the 7 games when Kalil started. We averaged 2.4 sacks allowed with Kalil. We averaged 2.2 sacks allowed without Kalil. We had 300+ yards of total offense in 5 of the 10 games Kalil missed. We had 300+ yards of total offense in 3 of the 7 games Kalil played.

I thought that the OL played better with Kalil out there, but honestly there's not much if anything in the way of the stats to show it.