Zero Percent

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Be serious. If a GM can dump your number 1 receiver by trading him and then telling you about it afterwards, then telling you the same thing that Gettleman told you last year  which was to dump Shula wouldn't suddenly cause friction.

Coaches and GMs work together on players, but not coaches.

You're talking about how you think it should be. I'm telling you how people who actually do the job say it is.

[panthers55]

Just now, Jon Snow said:

That's not how I remember it going down.  If true then that's troubling to hear.  I thought Ron had agreed to it prior to the trade?

From what I remember it was all last minute and we weren't looking to trade him but got a call and offer and they negotiated the terms of the trade. Rivera was brought in at that point and they discussed it. I doubt Rivera would say he is happy to lose him  or Hurney needs Ron permission to trade him.

[Jon Snow]

2 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

From what I remember it was all last minute and we weren't looking to trade him but got a call and offer and they negotiated the terms of the trade. Rivera was brought in at that point and they discussed it. I doubt Rivera would say he is happy to lose him  or Hurney needs Ron permission to trade him.

He would have had to.  If Ron didn't want KB traded he wouldn't have been.  Marty doesn't have the balls to pull something like that and the rift it would create certainly wouldn't go unnoticed.  Nice theory in principle but it falls apart when applied to Hurney.

[panthers55]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Coaches and GMs work together on players, but not coaches.

You're talking about how you think it should be. I'm telling you how people who actually do the job say it is.

No you are telling.me how it is supposed to be based on the people you are quoting. But to make a generalization to speak for 32 different organization guarantees you won't be right about everyone and their involvement in personnel matters. Just like recommendations about what owners should or should not do get broken all the time.

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

No you are telling.me how it is supposed to be based on the people you are quoting. But to make a generalization to speak for 32 different organization guarantees you won't be right about everyone and their involvement in personnel matters. Just like recommendations about what owners should or should not do get broken all the time.

The person I'm primarily quoting was from this organization.

Look, I get that you want Hurney to be good. Heck, you wanted Shula to be good. You've put in an insane amount of time on here defending his performance as offensive coordinator.

But he's gone now, and after next season there's a pretty good possibility that Hurney will be following him.

You can't argue Hurney into being a good GM anymore than you could argue Shula into being a good offensive coordinator.

When the time comes for the decision to be made, nobody's asking our opinions.

[outlaw4]

1 hour ago, tiger7_88 said:

More like a "look at how I'm changing" move when he's not really changing.

I had one full day of hope that Ron, in firing Shula, might have seen the writing on the wall.  I don't think so now.  Ron is Ron and what we're likely to see under the Turner Nepotistic Regime is the same ol' Run-Run-SAVEMECAM! offense.

Because Ron Rivera.

I'm not doubting Rivera isn't aware that his job security is tenuous with new management coming in. It's just that his attempt to change is quintessential paddleboat Ron, playing it overly safe rather than taking a chance. He's so determined to stick to who and what he knows – regardless of how shaky they've done recently – that he doesn't even want to consider anyone else that could have a much higher ceiling or have new ideas that could fit with what we have. That's what bothers me so much.

[panthers55]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The person I'm primarily quoting was from this organization.

Look, I get that you want Hurney to be good. Heck, you wanted Shula to be good. You've put in an insane amount of time on here defending his performance as offensive coordinator.

But he's gone now, and after next season there's a pretty good possibility that Hurney will be following him.

You can't argue Hurney into being a good GM anymore than you could argue Shula into being a good offensive coordinator.

When the time comes for the decision to be made, nobody's asking our opinions.

Now you are throwing stuff on the wall hoping it sticks. I have worked no harder defending the Panthers than you have spent time bashing them with the exception of Gettleman. You hated Shula, dislike Hurney and criticize Rivera continuously. You are just as biased negatively as I am positively.

As for Hurney being gone next year, that is very likely. That will be his greatest asset. He can be bold and do what he wants because he doesn't have to be worried about being fired. He owns a radio station, he doesn't need the GM gig.

[Jon Snow]

1 minute ago, outlaw4 said:

I'm not doubting Rivera isn't aware that his job security is tenuous with new management coming in. It's just that his attempt to change is quintessential paddleboat Ron, playing it overly safe rather than taking a chance. He's so determined to stick to who and what he knows – regardless of how shaky they've done recently – that he doesn't even want to consider anyone else that could have a much higher ceiling or have new ideas that could fit with what we have. That's what bothers me so much.

I honestly don't think he has enough time to start over with a new approach.  There's no grace period left if it flops.  He has no choice but to go with what he knows.  This is the best option he has.  And that may not be enough if it doesn't produce significant results.

[arbnranger]

2 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

What is the chance that Rivera woild have fired Shila without having an agreement with Turner already. 

 

This week has been window dressing.

I know I’m late on the scene on this thing J, but cmon, let’s be realistic... “I got up at 315 am to look/make notes” 

Window dressing agree, but you know that’s the game man. I listened to the conference the other day twice and Ron is 8/10 of not giving a concise answer . Good on him, that’s the game. 

I do believe he has enough tenure and experience to try and get exactly what he wants out of a possible last two years or an extension. 

He may not be sharp or quick but he’s savvy. 

 

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Now you are throwing stuff on the wall hoping it sticks. I have worked no harder defending the Panthers than you have spent time bashing them with the exception of Gettleman. You hated Shula, dislike Hurney and criticize Rivera continuously. You are just as biased negatively as I am positively.

As for Hurney being gone next year, that is very likely. That will be his greatest asset. He can be bold and do what he wants because he doesn't have to be worried about being fired. He owns a radio station, he doesn't need the GM gig.

I don't "hate" Shula or anyone else. I happen to think he wasn't good enough at his job. Ditto Ken Dorsey.

T'would seem that Ron Rivera agrees.

As to Hurney, he's made clear that he wants the job permanently, so any suggestion that he can just "slash and burn" this year is off base.

[panthers55]

29 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

He would have had to.  If Ron didn't want KB traded he wouldn't have been.  Marty doesn't have the balls to pull something like that and the rift it would create certainly wouldn't go unnoticed.  Nice theory in principle but it falls apart when applied to Hurney.

Maybe Hurney 1.0 but not Hurney 2.0. One thing he said he learned watching Gettleman and evaluating his own earlier performance was that he was too emotional and loyal the first time around. This time the scuttlebutt is that he is being more analytical and unemotional. So he might have the balls after deferring to Fox and Rivera the first time and he saw where that got  him. 

[Snake]

1 hour ago, Jon Snow said:

If JR hadn't been exposed then we wouldn't be having this conversation.  It's the domino effect.

It's called running a business. Everyone and there mom knew Shula sucked but Ron was untouchable to JR. So much so he even made Dave sign a agreement to not fire him. I feel Ron is at his best when he is accountable. From here on out he is. Turner was a great move and a dangerous one for Ron because he could become interim coach if Ron screws up. I have a feeling he want. 

[Jon Snow]

4 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Maybe Hurney 1.0 but not Hurney 2.0. One thing he said he learned watching Gettleman and evaluating his own earlier performance was that he was too emotional and loyal the first time around. This time the scuttlebutt is that he is being more analytical and unemotional. So he might have the balls after deferring to Fox and Rivera the first time and he saw where that got  him. 

Sounds like a lot of wishful thinking on your part.  I just can't buy it as a Hurney coup.  

[panthers55]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't "hate" Shula or anyone else. I happen to think he wasn't good enough at his job. Ditto Ken Dorsey.

T'would seem that Ron Rivera agrees.

As to Hurney, he's made clear that he wants the job permanently, so any suggestion that he can just "slash and burn" this year is off base.

I think he said that before the sale was announced. He took the job he said as a favor to Mr. Richardson. Richardson is gone. He has no loyalty to anyone but the Panthers. You think the Benjamin trade was playing it safe instead of hanging it all out there. No Hurney is all in determined to redeem his reputation moreso than earn a paycheck.