What makes Norv Turner's Air Coryell system go?

[JARROD]

50 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Problem is the WCO offense requires a quarterback to have good footwork, is accurate and can throw players open. The short passing game is used as their running game and everything is on timing and anticipation. Tell me which of those quarterback qualities Newton is great at. If you think we can remake him at this point in his career without plenty of struggles you must think our new OC is going to named Houdini.

Cam throws a lot of guys open. It gets stuck in brains when he’s had shoulder issues.

he throws into tight windows and makes a lot of precision throws.

i go back to 2011 when Chud ran his version of the AC which I call BS along with WCO as they both have significant variations and iterations based on the coach and personnel.

Cam makes a lot of short passes when he has to.

Personally with Samuel coming back, and the offensive line we have a WCO as you guys are labeling would work better.

otherwise we have to go find an elite LT, get a bunch of road graders, find 2 giant WR that are also fast and high point well—

jeez is that all?

take what we have and put what we have in the best position to win.

thats having a short to medium attack with stretch plays and spread formations, open up the lanes for Cam to take off when he wants to, give him some vertical options often.

 

[SuperCamDaGawd]

So if this the case why not go back and get KB? He high points the ball and makes amazing catches. Cam wants him back and would definitely welcome it

[GusLevy]

50 minutes ago, dave-o said:

I grew up watching an Air Coryell coached Chargers team with Dan Fouts at QB...  Man they were fun to watch....

Don Coryell should be in the NFL Hall of Fame for literally being the inflection point that changed the NFL overnight from the Pro Set offense into the one-back, stretch the field through the vertical game with receivers at all levels game we watch today - this is a general philosophy in today's game. Much of the game today is the game that Coryell created - only the language and details are adjusted. Paul Brown and Sid Gilman lit the candle and Bill Walsh gets much of the credit but imo Coryell and his assistant Gibbs are the true precursors to the NFL game being played currently. 

Fans today can't imagine an offense without a slot receiver but that position is literally the H-Back that Gibbs learned from Coryell and won 3 SBs with. The TE position that we know today is fathered by Coryell - Kellen Winslow is one of the game's immortals because he is the standard that all offenses have built the TE position to be since. Fouts is a legend and in many fans' eyes the greatest gunslinger of all time - a 60% passer who was nevertheless as feared a passer as there ever was.

I remember watching the late 70s/early 80s Chargers team - my favorite team as a kid were the Shula Dolphins - but the most fun team to watch were Coryell's Chargers. John Jefferson was my idol - I thought that he could catch anything within 5 yards of him and he basically did. The 1980 Chargers team had 3 receivers pass 1,000 yds that year - a year when only 8 receivers in the NFL did.

#1, #2 and #4 receiving yds leaders for 1980 were Chargers receivers...how bout dat!

I believe that an argument can be made to call that 1980 Chargers offense the greatest of all time. Fouts, Jefferson, Winslow, Joiner...and a 6-3 235lb RB with speed, power and could catch the ball in Chuck Muncie who also was passing 1,000yds rushing consistently during that time.

For all that, Coryell is not in the Hall of Fame because his teams never won the big one. Unlike Walsh, Shula, Noll and Gibbs who were winning all the SBs in his era, Coryell never had a great defense. 

Defense has and always will be the bedrock foundation for winning NFL championships. The 1981 Chargers team is the all-time proof of that adage. #1 Offense by a mile but the pyrrhic victory of having a successful high-octane offense is that the Defense suffers due to losing the Time of Possession battle - the Chargers Defense ranked 26th that year as a result. 

Many who watched the game live consider the Chargers-Dolphins playoff game that year to be the greatest football game ever played. It was a Greek Tragedy Opera played out in live-action by football players. I still can recall the voices of Criqui and Brodie as the game turned from the 24pt first qtr Chargers lead. I was prob in tears in the first quarter, but by the time Benirshicke missed that 55yd field goal just before the half I was gripped...And then the Hook and Ladder with 6 seconds to go before the half.

I'll prob remember only 2 football plays on my death bed: The Play during Stanford-Cal 1982 (Rivera was the Captain on the Cal team btw) and the Strock to Harris to Nathan hook and ladder to end the Chargers-Dolphins 1st half. The joy I felt watching that play as a kid was indescribable.

Anyway, Coryell and the Chargers ended up winning that amazing game but how many fans can remember that the Chargers then had to travel the next week to Cincy to play Anderson's new-helmet Bengals in the coldest playoff game ever. Between the Dolphins game and the cold, the Chargers offense never had a chance. 

 

[Delhommey]

1 hour ago, thomas96 said:

He's improved at attacking and high pointing the ball. 

As shown at the end of the Saints Playoff game.

[Saca312]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

Problem is the WCO offense requires a quarterback to have good footwork, is accurate and can throw players open. The short passing game is used as their running game and everything is on timing and anticipation. Tell me which of those quarterback qualities Newton is great at. If you think we can remake him at this point in his career without plenty of struggles you must think our new OC is going to named Houdini.

Wait did the 2017 season ever happen?

All Cam ever did was make short throws all season long. Very few deep balls.

yes he can work in a WCO.

[Saca312]

1 hour ago, Cyberjag said:

Personally, I love Coryell but given the diverse nature of our main offensive weapons (assuming Samuel is one), I don't understand why we don't switch to Erhardt-Perkins.

Precisely my thinking.

This offense doesn’t fit a coryell system, and Norv isn’t the best at adapting to today’s schemes and players. 

Even worse, most of our receivers are young, and Coryell terminology is the toughest out there. One year is not enough to fully implement such system.

Much rather try for the Eagles QB coach and see if he has anything up his sleeve. The new meta is young, upstart guys with an offensive mindset of their own on how to attack defenses, and I’d love to see one paired with Cam.

 

[beastson]

6 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

Wait did the 2017 season ever happen?

All Cam ever did was make short throws all season long. Very few deep balls.

yes he can work in a WCO.

With an injured arm that people keep forgetting. Without OTA's, limited TC, without pre-season, and he didn't push it too hard during practice either. Cam arm might have gotten better, but it still was a problem throughout the entire season

[heel31ok]

1 hour ago, trueblade said:

I think Pryor or Allen Robinson (assuming he's recovered) fits the Dez/Jackson/Floyd role.

is Pryor that good...can he stretch the field ?

[rhyslloyd]

A miracle?

[beastson]

1 minute ago, Saca312 said:

Precisely my thinking.

This offense doesn’t fit a coryell system, and Norv isn’t the best at adapting to today’s schemes and players. 

Even worse, most of our receivers are young, and Coryell terminology is the toughest out there. One year is not enough to fully implement such system.

Much rather try for the Eagles QB coach and see if he has anything up his sleeve. The new meta is young, upstart guys with an offensive mindset of their own on how to attack defenses, and I’d love to see one paired with Cam.

 

Yes and interview Jim Caldwell, someone who's had some success last season, not since 2011. The problem is Ron. Ron sees whatever it is that he see and that's it.

[mc52beast]

We have no power running back

We have one pretty good tackle and one that should be fishing

We have one tall receiver who really doesn’t jump well

We have a really good TE

[frash.exe]

idk if we have the tools required for this system, but i do know that any playbook that references the use of an H-Back needs to be thrown into the nearest burning fireplace

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, Cyberjag said:

Personally, I love Coryell but given the diverse nature of our main offensive weapons (assuming Samuel is one), I don't understand why we don't switch to Erhardt-Perkins.

Anything not designed as Coryell or WCO gets lumped under an EP system. The issue is EP systems are more horizontal versus vertical systems. We use play action and vertical routes to keep safeties back to aid the run game but we have run the EP system in 2008 under Davidson  when Stewart's and Williams did a great job running the ball.

[panthers55]

47 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

Wait did the 2017 season ever happen?

All Cam ever did was make short throws all season long. Very few deep balls.

yes he can work in a WCO.

Totally wrong. Cam can throw into a tight window at times but other times can't get close to the receiver. Throwing someone open is being able to consistently throw it not where a player is but where he will be. Cam tends to throw to a receiver and most times holds the ball until someone is open. He often hits the receiver in the body or behind them while throwing them open is hitting them in stride.  Can he do it sometimes. Yes. Consistently, not. WCO quarterbacks throw to a spot and get the ball out fast. Cam doesn't do that. 

Can he make a timing throw? Yes. Can he do it consistently? No. 

Short throws versus deep ones are not a relevant difference between the 2 systems although WCOs tend to use quicker shorter passes.