REPORT: Panthers will hire Norv Turner as OC

[therealmjl]

1 minute ago, Cartel de Carolina said:

So let me get this straight, he is 3rd in medium accuracy but bad in short?

http://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2017/05/10/cam-newton-ranked-no-3-in-nfl-for-mid-range-passing-accuracy/

Thanks for providing the stats for me lol

[Cartel de Carolina]

Just now, mjligon said:

Were you in hibernation during the 2015 season or something?

Maybe the D was keying in on the run leaving deep open? 

Thousand variables to consider. 

Cam can make all the throws. To think otherwise is absurd. 

[therealmjl]

Just now, Cartel de Carolina said:

Maybe the D was keying in on the run leaving deep open? 

Thousand variables to consider. 

Cam can make all the throws. To think otherwise is absurd. 

I never said he couldn’t.

I said that he is better as a medium to long ball thrower.

He doesn’t fit a West Coast offense.

[Cartel de Carolina]

1 minute ago, mjligon said:

Thanks for providing the stats for me lol

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/carolina-panthers-tampa-bay-buccaneers-cam-newton-nfl-week-17-010316

[therealmjl]

Just now, Cartel de Carolina said:

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/carolina-panthers-tampa-bay-buccaneers-cam-newton-nfl-week-17-010316

That’s great and all but you’re missing the point.

Cam is better suited in an air coryell system 

[beastson]

WCO

Air Coryell

Option

Idc what offense you're in, but we need someone who can make in-game adjustments. If we see a weakness, we can exploit in the 2nd quarter. We don't need a if it works it works, if it doesn't oh well offense. Can Norv do that?

[FugAllY'all]

29 minutes ago, JARROD said:

I think you guys are crazy.

WCO is just a language. Football is football.

Coaches run their own iterations of everything anyway. Some feature tightends, some pass catching running backs, some hate tightends. Some like short routes, some like more timing and hard squared off routes, some like rounded. 

You guys are acting like football systems are like rigid old kungfu styles or something.

Cam makes plenty of short and medium throw touchdowns. We’ve seen him do plenty of 3 and 5 step drops this year, so I don’t know what everyone is talking about.

In 2011 Cam threw 450 yards to Stewart and about that to Deangelo Williams, proof.

 

 

Basically this, when people refer to things like WCO or "Air Coryell", what you're really talking about is the terminology used to teach, classify and call plays. You can run any kind of offense with any kind of system. The Patriots use a system that was originally designed for a conservative power run offense, but have adapted it for a no-huddle offense built around quick/short passes. 

With that said, I don't think it makes much sense to change how the entire playbook is written in year 8. What we need to improve is the week by week game planning and our situational play calling during the game. Offensive football isn't all that complicated, when you boil it down to the basics, all you're trying to do is create one on one matchups that your guys can win. That's where I feel Shula was most lacking, his play calls and gameplans often left our guys in positions where it was very difficult to make a play.

If you can stomach a little (ok maybe a lot) of Patriot's ball washing, this article is very informative on the subject,

http://grantland.com/features/how-terminology-erhardt-perkins-system-helped-maintain-dominance-tom-brady-patriots/

[therealmjl]

Just now, beastson said:

WCO

Air Coryell

Option

Idc what offense you're in, but we need someone who can make in-game adjustments. If we see a weakness, we can exploit in the 2nd quarter. We don't need a if it works it works, if it doesn't oh well offense. Can Norv do that?

Yes

[Cartel de Carolina]

Just now, mjligon said:

That’s great and all but you’re missing the point.

Cam is better suited in an air coryell system 

Your missing the point. 

You have to take what the defense gives you. 

If the D is going to leave the flats and underneath open you take it.

If the D is going to play underneath and take away the short stuff you hit them medium to long. 

If the D is going to stack the box you throw the ball.

If the D is going to leave the box light you try to make them pay with the run. 

If the D is playing the run aggressively you hit them with play action.

If the DBs are playing 10 yards off the WRs you hit them with some quick outs. 

etc etc. 

 

[therealmjl]

Just now, Cartel de Carolina said:

Your missing the point. 

You have to take what the defense gives you. 

If the D is going to leave the flats and underneath open you take it.

If the D is going to play underneath and take away the short stuff you hit them medium to long. 

If the D is going to stack the box you throw the ball.

If the D is going to leave the box light you try to make them pay with the run. 

If the D is playing the run aggressively you hit them with play action.

If the DBs are playing 10 yards off the WRs you hit them with some quick outs. 

etc etc. 

 

Breaking

[Cartel de Carolina]

The quicker a QB gets the ball out his hands the better. 

Look no further than SF. 

I want a fast pace offense that looks to take the easy stuff 1st and foremost. 

[Cartel de Carolina]

This notion Cam is inaccurate is a myth. 

https://www.derp/2017/9/20/16331492/what-they-get-wrong-about-the-nfl-carolina-panthers-quarterback-cam-newtons-accuracy-is-underrated

[Cartel de Carolina]

"Newton was the fourth most accurate passer in the league on passes that [traveled] further than five yards downfield. His 68.46 percent mark was only beaten out by Andrew Luck, Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. Newton was second only to Tom Brady in the 11-20 yard range, he was accurate on 70.54 percent of those throws. On 21+ yard throws, Newton ranked eighth with a 49.18 percent accuracy number."

[Mr. Scot]

40 minutes ago, JARROD said:

I think you guys are crazy.

WCO is just a language. Football is football.

Coaches run their own iterations of everything anyway. Some feature tightends, some pass catching running backs, some hate tightends. Some like short routes, some like more timing and hard squared off routes, some like rounded. 

You guys are acting like football systems are like rigid old kungfu styles or something.

Cam makes plenty of short and medium throw touchdowns. We’ve seen him do plenty of 3 and 5 step drops this year, so I don’t know what everyone is talking about.

In 2011 Cam threw 450 yards to Stewart and about that to Deangelo Williams, proof.

There's not a huge difference between Coryell and E-P other than language, but Coryell and WCO have very different emphasis and require different skill sets and personnel.

To run a Coryell, you primarily want deep threat receivers.  YAC isn't necessarily a big deal.  To run WCO though, you want guys who can take a short pass and make people miss.

Blocking schemes are different too.  WCO generally prefers lighter, more agile OL guys because they do a lot of zone and cut blocking in that approach where Coryell systems tend to prefer the big big uglys.

At quarterback, Coryell QBs don't necessarily need to be mobile, but they do need to be good long passers. WCO QBs don't absolutely have to be mobile but it helps.  As far as passing, guys like Joe Montana and Chad Pennington worked much better in West Coast schemes where the short pass was essentially a long handoff and a big arm wasn't necessary.  Whereas someone like Newton who likes to chuck it downfield suits a Coryell. 

So yeah, it matters.