Am I overreacting to say we need an entire secondary change?

[Peppers90 NC]

1 minute ago, SOJA said:

again that's fair, but I still don't think our CBs are bad enough to be replaced I think they were put in a tough position

agreed, i want an offense-focused offseason with maybe a S and a pass rusher added. who knows who the new DC will be but probably wont be quite as aggressive as Wilks

[SOJA]

Just now, Peppers90 NC said:

agreed, i want an offense-focused offseason with maybe a S and a pass rusher added. who knows who the new DC will be but probably wont be quite as aggressive as Wilks

totally agree. We really need some real talent youth at DE

[CPcavedweller]

7 minutes ago, SOJA said:

That's fair but on both the Ginn TD and the wide open TD to the random white TE blitzing was the issue

Someone lost the TE. He looked like he was blocking, the guy forgot to keep him and off the TE went. In a way, that's something that getting after the QB prevents but the Saints OL performed well on that play. If the play does end up being a run, you can't have a defender waiting around for the TE to decide if he is going to go out into the end zone. 

[SwagAces9030]

James to me is a solid #2, and Worley in the nickel would be fine. Safety we need some actual speed and ball skills. That said I don't hate Coleman as much as everyone else does, I think he is solid in run support and brought a good attitude to our defense. 

[Peppers90 NC]

3 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

Do you understand the play in which Ginn was open? Coleman made the right read to cut on Thomas as Ginn's purpose on that play was to clear out the safety. The problem with Ginn is that he is too fast to mirror and bait the QB into throwing on the underneath route that was the intended receiver (1st read) on the play. 

Am I wrong in thinking we were in Cover 3? Thomas should have been Worley's duty while Coleman should have still been the deep cover while Ginn was inside on Bradberry and it gave him an advantage. Regardless, Ginn is still faster than anyone on the field and Brees threw it up for Ginn to go get.

[CPcavedweller]

Just now, SwagAces9030 said:

James to me is a solid #2, and Worley in the nickel would be fine. Safety we need some actual speed and ball skills. That said I don't hate Coleman as much as everyone else does, I think he is solid in run support and brought a good attitude to our defense. 

You don't really have number 1's and number 2's in this offense. You have two guys that play zone on the outside and sometimes you have a nickel corner, however most of the time you have Shaq playing nickel because you can go from a nickel package to a 4-3 while staying with the same grouping. The problem with Wilks is that his blitz schemes seem too obvious. I would like to see more of the showing a Double A gap blitz on third down like we did under McDermot as it is far less predictable. 

[beastson]

19 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

In your opinion, was Bradberry beat deep on the Ginn TD? According to both Ginn and Brees, Coleman read the route tree correctly. Ginn was running a clear out to take the safety out of the play for a ball to Thomas; Coleman read the play and reacted correctly to what he was seeing. The only problem is that Brees isn't your run of the mill quarterback who still throws it to his target, and he knew Ginns route would be clear so he went to read two. Bradberry may have been 0.05 seconds too late to break from the OPPOSITE HASH or else he would have intercepted that pass with ease. 

I didn't see any play yesterday where a guy lined up one on one and was beat deep. Most if not every play, the corners read the quarterbacks eyes and by then it is too late. The idea is to shrink the windows and force the QB to be precise with his throws; in other words, challenge the QB to beat us because we know we aren't giving up the run. The problem that the Saints pose is that they can rely on whichever method they feel is optimal with equal effectiveness.

As for the rest of the season you mention. The corners performed well. Wilks needs to adjust his defensive play calling when he sees our pass rush is getting tired out rather than continue to call the same pressures once they become ineffective.

Lastly, your comment on Worley and Bradberry getting beat deep if they play press is ridiculous considering you don't know that for sure. It really doesn't matter who the corner is, they are going to get beat from time to time. But what you see as getting beat, I see as playing underneath. If there is a corner underneath and a safety overtop, the corner wasn't beat, he was playing his responsibility. If a receiver is in front of a corner and a safety isn't there, the safety f'ed up. I didn't see many times this season, if ever, where Bradberry was simply beat when he was asked to man up. He is ahead of where Norman was in Wilks coaching room at this point in his career and I expect that trend to continue.

Sit back, have a beer. 

Our coverage scheme as I said since Ron been here has been give up underneath, don't get beat deep. Our corners majority of the time plays off. The Saints know this. They didn't perform well, they play what is asked of them. Sure everybody gets beat yes that's true, but we can't switch the coverage up to man with these two. We tried it in TB and it didn't work. Bradberry was matched up with Evans most of the day. Worley did play press and he was either called for holding and pass interference throughout the year. Bradberry has shown the inability to turn his head around multiple times this year. You have hope fine, but don't say they did well for this entire season, poo even Worley was benched. You didn't see it this YEAR or blatantly ignoring it cause of your hope and subjective like for the 2. You even went to mention you think Bradberry will be better than Norman

[SwagAces9030]

Just now, CPcavedweller said:

You don't really have number 1's and number 2's in this offense. You have two guys that play zone on the outside and sometimes you have a nickel corner, however most of the time you have Shaq playing nickel because you can go from a nickel package to a 4-3 while staying with the same grouping. The problem with Wilks is that his blitz schemes seem too obvious. I would like to see more of the showing a Double A gap blitz on third down like we did under McDermot as it is far less predictable. 

Thats what I meant by Worley playing nickel, which means barely on the field. 

[CPcavedweller]

Just now, Peppers90 NC said:

Am I wrong in thinking we were in Cover 3? Thomas should have been Worley's duty while Coleman should have still been the deep cover while Ginn was inside on Bradberry and it gave him an advantage. Regardless, Ginn is still faster than anyone on the field and Brees threw it up for Ginn to go get.

I don't remember three. I only remember 2 as Adams was in the box on run support. The problem is that the safety sees the intended receiver and is to break on the ball before it is let go. Ideally, the pass rush would've been getting there by that time and forcing Brees to throw to his 1st read despite the safety breaking. Brees had all day and simply moved on to Ginn, and even once he saw Ginn he still held the ball until he could get it over the line. I stand by Coleman making the right read there because if the rush was getting to Brees within 2 to 3 seconds as it should, the result of the play would've been far different. 

[LinvilleGorge]

I think we clearly intended to play more nickel this year but Captain just sucked. Hopefully Corn Elder can prove to be an upgrade at that position but we're pretty much stuck with Captain and his contract through next season.

[CPcavedweller]

2 minutes ago, beastson said:

Our coverage scheme as I said since Ron been here has been give up underneath, don't get beat deep. Our corners majority of the time plays off. The Saints know this. They didn't perform well, they play what is asked of them. Sure everybody gets beat yes that's true, but we can't switch the coverage up to man with these two. We tried it in TB and it didn't work. Bradberry was matched up with Evans most of the day. Worley did play press and he was either called for holding and pass interference throughout the year. Bradberry has shown the inability to turn his head around multiple times this year. You have hope fine, but don't say they did well for this entire season, poo even Worley was benched. You didn't see it this YEAR or blatantly ignoring it cause of your hope and subjective like for the 2. You even went to mention you think Bradberry will be better than Norman

You play press with zone and basically hold your man up at the line as long as possible to give the rush a chance. When he gets by, your trail them and wait for your help over top or inside. It isn't like man coverage where you try to stick with them step for step. So again, I didn't see them get beat so much as I saw them playing to their help which is their responsibility.

I said I expect Bradberry to stay on his trajectory. He will be heading in to Year 3 far ahead of where Norman was in Year 3. Regardless, you obviously aren't going to change your mind considering what Madden shows must be true. 

[CPcavedweller]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think we clearly intended to play more nickel this year but Captain just sucked. Hopefully Corn Elder can prove to be an upgrade at that position but we're pretty much stuck with Captain and his contract through next season.

Cole Luke and Corn Elder

[TheMaulClaw]

We definitely need some turnover on the back end....but not every player.  By far...our most glaring need on D is at Safety...then at cb2.  I like Worley as depth, but I don't think he's an NFL starter.  Bradberry is a starter....but not sure if he's a number 1.  I'd like to see JB move to the 2nd spot and see if we can land solid talent in FA.  We definitely need help at nickle.  Munneryln appears to be done.  He was brought in because of his ability to blitz....and it was nowhere to be found.  

I say purge Coleman, Adams, Munnerlyn....bring in another corner and move Worley to the pine.

[CPcavedweller]

1 minute ago, TheMaulClaw said:

We definitely need some turnover on the back end....but not every player.  By far...our most glaring need on D is at Safety...then at cb2.  I like Worley as depth, but I don't think he's an NFL starter.  Bradberry is a starter....but not sure if he's a number 1.  I'd like to see JB move to the 2nd spot and see if we can land solid talent in FA.  We definitely need help at nickle.  Munneryln appears to be done.  He was brought in because of his ability to blitz....and it was nowhere to be found.  

I say purge Coleman, Adams, Munnerlyn....bring in another corner and move Worley to the pine.

I didn't see you say anything bad about Adams, so why should he be purged? Also, our defense is much better with Coleman in rather than out. So who do you propose we replace our two starters with and who do you want to back them up? Surely not Trae Boston.