The Failure of the Gettleman era in Carolina. Close, but no cigar. [Don't want to read a mini rant, don't open!]

[mcdougal]

2 hours ago, Smithers said:

We need 3 CBs, 2 Safety’s, a LB, a LT, RB, 2 WRs and you want to be the coaches

I am sorry. But isn't Ron supposed to be a defensive genius? Why the hell does his scheme need so much help and resources? Meanwhile, Cam is supposed to try to turn chicken poo into chicken salad...

[cptx]

12 minutes ago, KillaCamNewton said:

Which is the most frustrating part. Because after the Super Bowl instead of making a couple tweaks and going into the year with the best roster in football and a potential dynasty in the making he tries to go Mr. Big Cock on Norman, wastes our 1st round pick on a luxury pick, and wastes the next two picks trying to hopefully find a Norman replacement. Imagine last year if we keep JNo, use our 1st rounder to replace Remmers, and use our 2nd on a safety after Harper got released

Still waiting on that luxury pick to do anything remotely relevant 2 seasons after the fact

 

You just know he drafted Butler so he would be able to try and lowball Star. 

[Cartel de Carolina]

DG was one of the better GMs in the league. 

The owner and the coaches are equal if not more of a problem. 

Owner wants to make decisions with his feelings. 

Ron hiring a complete joke of an OC. 

 

[NanuqoftheNorth]

2 hours ago, FugAllY'all said:

This is fuging stupid. Gettleman took over a team that hadn't won in 4 years and a roster $15 million over cap despite being shambles at practically every position group outside of QB and linebacker. His drafting and free agent moves brought 4 playoff berths in 5 years, the best season in team history, and a trip to the Super Bowl. Anyone who compares our roster now to what it looked like when he took over and considers that a failure doesn't know dick about football.

This ^^^

Hurney couldn't win with his own picks even after ten years of being on the job.

Gettleman took what Hurney left, added what talent he could while having one arm tied behind his back due to poorly negotiated contracts and the Panthers franchise experienced more success during the last 5 years than they had in ten previous years under Hurney.

Most of the DG haters seem to love individual players more than the team itself.  That is a recipe for disaster, as Hurney's first ten years as GM clearly demonstrate.

[Car123]

9 minutes ago, cptx said:

Still waiting on that luxury pick to do anything remotely relevant 2 seasons after the fact

 

You just know he drafted Butler so he would be able to try and lowball Star. 

Lowball Short.

[top dawg]

3 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

This ^^^

Hurney couldn't win with his own picks even after ten years of being on the job.

Gettleman took what Hurney left, added what talent he could while having one arm tied behind his back due to poorly negotiated contracts and the Panthers franchise experienced more success during the last 5 years than they had in ten previous years under Hurney.

Most of the DG haters seem to love individual players more than the team itself.  That is a recipe for disaster, as Hurney's first ten years as GM clearly demonstrate.

This thread isn't really about Hurney per se. I didn't even mention him. But, since you went there, Hurney's picks were largely responsible for us getting to the Super Bowl. That is really not even up for debate, it's fact.  Hurney's personnel pick-ups were not all bad, and neither was his tenure here. I hold JR somewhat responsible for the horrible contracts that were part of Hurney's demise, but to pretend that it was just all bad with Hurney is revisionist history at best, and just an untruth at worst.

Now, getting back to G-man... 

People can cry about Gettleman having his hands tied behind is back all they want, but Gettleman missed the mark with how he drafted after he essentially fixed the D-line by double dipping with Star and KK.  Any GM would have drafted Star when he dropped to us with the position that we were in, so he doesn't really get credit for that in my book, but, yes, KK was a stud. If Star hadn't dropped, I wouldn't have had any issues with KK in that slot.  But after that, things kinda fell apart with luxury picks leaving the likes of Landon Collins among a few others up for grabs, when there was every justification to take him.  I would have picked Lattimore as opposed to McCaffrey, even though I like him as a person and player. Gettleman's drafts could have landed better values at need-based positions. Gettleman's hands were not tied in the slightest in the draft. Furthermore, there were plenty of fairly cheap contracts that made me raise an eye during Gettleman's era in Carolina that made me say "What the hell!"  I mean Russell Okung and Donald Penn didn't actually break the bank, and neither did Stevie Johnson, Pierre Garcon or Torrey Smith this last season.  If there is a will, there is a way.  Loomis, with no damned money---cap-strapped as hell, found a way to infuse talent into his team that whipped our asses three times this year.  This, after being pretty much a joke for a couple years.  So, don't give me that Gettleman-couldn't- do-poo bull jive.  At the time when we needed him to make prudent decisions the most, to get us over the top, he was NOT hogtied----perhaps hog-molly-tied, but not hog-tied.  

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

This ^^^

Hurney couldn't win with his own picks even after ten years of being on the job.

Gettleman took what Hurney left, added what talent he could while having one arm tied behind his back due to poorly negotiated contracts and the Panthers franchise experienced more success during the last 5 years than they had in ten previous years under Hurney.

Most of the DG haters seem to love individual players more than the team itself.  That is a recipe for disaster, as Hurney's first ten years as GM clearly demonstrate.

Pretty much.

You'll notice that in order to prop up Hurney vs Gettleman, we have to make absolutely certain the criteria does not include win-loss records. In reality, win-loss records are the only fully objective method of comparison you have, but looking at win-loss records doesn't allow you to rant about cutting Steve Smith or not signing that one guy you liked and such.

And of course, you have to make certain that Hurney gets credit for part of Gettleman's success, ignoring of course that Hurney also had his "core" and couldn't win with them.  Also ignoring that Hurney's most successful stretch came while he still had George Seifert's core and the longer his tenure went on, the fewer and farther between the wins were.

"Oh, but he had bad drafts" someone will say.  That's debatable (and frankly amusing when you look at Hurney's drafts) but accepting the premise, have you looked at the Patriots draft record?  Out of curiosity, does anyone look at the Pats winning seasons and counter "Yeah, but they had a bad draft?"  If so, noted, but I'm pretty sure nobody gives a s--t.

Bottom Line: Gettleman presided over the most successful period in Panthers history, including its single best season.  Wanna say "it's all Rivera"?  Fine.  What was Rivera's record before Gettleman got here again?

Basically, the guy cut players people liked and so he'll never get any credit for anything.  Yeah, it's stupid, but whadda ya gonna do. 

[cptx]

14 minutes ago, top dawg said:

This thread isn't really about Hurney per se. I didn't even mention him. But, since you went there, Hurney's picks were largely responsible for us getting to the Super Bowl. That is really not even up for debate, it's fact.  Hurney's personnel pick-ups were not all bad, and neither was his tenure here. I hold JR somewhat responsible for the horrible contracts that were part of Hurney's demise, but to pretend that it was just all bad with Hurney is revisionist history at best, and just an untruth at worst.

Now, getting back to G-man... 

People can cry about Gettleman having his hands tied behind is back all they want, but Gettleman missed the mark with how he drafted after he essentially fixed the O-line by double dipping with Star and KK.  Any GM would have drafted Star when he dropped to us with the position that we were in, so he doesn't really get credit for that in my book, but, yes, KK was a stud. If Star hadn't of dropped, I wouldn't have had any issues with KK in that slot.  But after that, things kinda fell apart with luxury picks leaving the likes of Landon Collins among a few others u for grabs, when there was every justification to take him.  I would have picked Lattimore as opposed to McCaffrey, even though I like him as a person and player. Gettleman's drafts could have landed better values at need-based positions. Gettleman's hands were not tied in the slightest in the draft. Furthermore, there were plenty of fairly cheap contracts that made me raise an eye during Gettleman's era in Carolina that made me say "What the hell!"  I mean Russell Okung and Donald Penn didn't actually break the bank, and neither did Stevie Johnson, Pierre Garcon or Torrey Smith this last season.  If there is a will, there is a way.  Loomis, with no damned money---cap-strapped as hell, found a way to infuse talent into his team that whipped our asses three times this year.  This, after being pretty much a joke for a couple years.  So, don't give me that Gettleman-couldn't- do-poo bull jive.  At the time when we needed him to make prudent decisions the most, to get us over the top, he was NOT hogtied----perhaps hog-molly-tied, but not hog-tied.  

Pie x100

[The Natural]

 This Hurney vs. Gettleman crap has gotten sooo old. You have people who for whatever reason desperately want to gloss over the (many) shortcomings of Gettleman and romanticize his tenure here. They both suck, they really do. This isn't some bizarre situation where one HAS to be good and the other bad. 

[Cartel de Carolina]

4 minutes ago, The Natural said:

 This Hurney vs. Gettleman crap has gotten sooo old. You have people who for whatever reason desperately want to gloss over the (many) shortcomings of Gettleman and romanticize his tenure here. They both suck, they really do. This isn't some bizarre situation where one HAS to be good and the other bad. 

Think you will be hard pressed to find a GM without blemishes. 

DG was a solid GM. 

Even with JR's tampering. 

[cptx]

5 minutes ago, Cartel de Carolina said:

 

DG was a solid GM. 

 

ok

[The Natural]

1 minute ago, Cartel de Carolina said:

Think you will be hard pressed to find a GM without blemishes. 

DG was a solid GM. 

Even with JR's tampering. 

Solid in what way? Yes he was frugal, but it was at the cost of talent. He certainly wasn't great in the draft. 

[Cartel de Carolina]

Just now, The Natural said:

Solid in what way? Yes he was frugal, but it was at the cost of talent. He certainly wasn't great in the draft. 

Cap management he was great. Minus Khalil which I think JR had a hand in. 

He also had a talent for finding really nice cheap FA to come in and play well. 

He also had a talent for finding late round or udfa to play well. 

Hard to evaluate his draft picks when you have inept coaches who do not know how to use players. 

 

[The Natural]

Just now, Cartel de Carolina said:

Cap management he was great. Minus Khalil which I think JR had a hand in. 

He also had a talent for finding really nice cheap FA to come in and play well. 

He also had a talent for finding late round or udfa to play well. 

Hard to evaluate his draft picks when you have inept coaches who do not know how to use players. 

 

 I love the "meddling owner" excuse is ONLY used for his blunders. Any positives were all Gettlemagic! Maybe JR controlled everything? Every draft pick and every contract. Hurney and Gettleman were just faces for the public. Richardson was probably doing the scouting as well.