The Cam Conundrum

[Carolina Cajun]

This thread is idiotic.  First off, yes it's possible to criticize cam and not be racist, I've done it.  I have also heard enough idiots blame cam on the radio for things out of his control to know there are prejudicial idiots who can't get over a qb that doesn't look the part.

 

Now we're past that, no, a dropback qb wouldn't be any better in our scheme.  Have you seen how our defense looks when left on the field all day.  What allows our defense to look so good is our offense killing clock and giving them breathers, it's been that way for years.  If we started going to a quick strike fast paced offense, you'd start seeing the cracks in our defense.  For instance, remember, the rams had a top tier defense last year, they upped the tempo and slung the ball and their defense regressed.

 

People need to be happy with having a mvp caliber qb who has the potential to take us to the promised land.  Tons of teams would kill to have cam.

[TheRed]

7 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

Curious, what’s your take on a black man criticizing Cam’s work ethic and leadership? Those exact critiques have been parroted verbatim by the likes of Cris Carter and Shannon Sharpe this past week on their respective programs. I don’t agree with them, but if you automatically associate those types of criticisms with inherent racial prejudices, then what happens when the ones propagating those kinds of assertions are black themselves?

I hardly watch ESPN, or any other sports talk shows. I don't know where they are getting those takes from, but frankly I think they're saying that for ratings.

[Shonuff]

1 hour ago, uncfan888 said:

This may shock you, but I don't speak about race very often on here. I just think you're a moron for hating the greatest QB we've ever had 

I think you hit the nail on the head.  For some reason, he believes replacing Cam with a more "accurate" QB is going to make the team better.  We don't have a running a game, period.  

And with our D, any ole average QB can win...that's just a fantasy.  The only reason we've been able to totally invest in the D with minimum investment in the offense is because of Cam.

[MasterAwesome]

50 minutes ago, TheRed said:

I hardly watch ESPN, or any other sports talk shows. I don't know where they are getting those takes from, but frankly I think they're saying that for ratings.

Eh....we’re talking about two prominent and respected members of the black community - aside from what you think of them as analysts, they were both wildly successful players in their time. To suggest that they are actually deliberately and knowingly using their platform to perpetuate deep-seeded racial prejudice for views is either a huge stretch or would make them the biggest scumbags.

Regardless, you would have to be incredibly naive to think that there aren’t any black people out there who genuinely feel that Cam’s inconsistencies stem from a poor work ethic and stubbornness to work on his mechanics. What would you say about those people who make that criticism if we remove racial motives from the equation?

[TheRed]

1 minute ago, MasterAwesome said:

Eh....we’re talking about two prominent and respected members of the black community - aside from what you think of them as analysts, they were both wildly successful players in their time. To suggest that they are actually deliberately and knowingly using their platform to perpetuate deep-seeded racial prejudice for views is either a huge stretch or would make them the biggest scumbags.

Regardless, you would have to be incredibly naive to think that there aren’t any black people out there who genuinely feel that Cam’s inconsistencies stem from a poor work ethic and stubbornness to work on his mechanics. What would you say about those people who make that criticism if we remove racial motives from the equation?

I'm not completely discounting what they are saying as men. I'm saying what they say on TV for ratings and what they actually feel are two different things. I've also never claimed that there aren't possibly black people out there who may feel this way about Cam Newton. If that's how they feel that's on them. I completely disagree with it, but beyond that what can I do?

But I'm going to be brutally honest here. I'm getting the vibe that you're hiding behind Cris and Shannon via a warped kind of "my black friend" argument, and honestly it's rather revolting. This is mainly due to the fact that you've completely bypassed opinions expressed here by black posters and instead made the views of Cris and Shannon the end all be all for opinions from the black community about Cam Newton.

[rico6]

Its so hard following this team due to its fanbase.

[MasterAwesome]

5 minutes ago, TheRed said:

I'm not completely discounting what they are saying as men. I'm saying what they say on TV for ratings and what they actually feel are two different things. I've also never claimed that there aren't possibly black people out there who may feel this way about Cam Newton. If that's how they feel that's on them. I completely disagree with it, but beyond that what can I do?

But I'm going to be brutally honest here. I'm getting the vibe that you're hiding behind Cris and Shannon via a warped kind of "my black friend" argument, and honestly it's rather revolting. This is mainly due to the fact that you've completely bypassed opinions expressed here by black posters and instead made the views of Cris and Shannon the end all be all for opinions from the black community about Cam Newton.

That’s funny because I’ve never even stated my personal views on Cam aside from clearly saying that I DISAGREED with Carter/Sharpe...so really cool Hot Take on me there, bud. I will be sure to reevaluate my life ASAP...thanks for the wake-up call.

If I am making the views of Carter/Sharpe “the end all be all for opinions from the black community about Cam Newton”, then you’re literally doing the exact same thing but with the views from the black posters on this thread or even this board. Who are you to be the arbiter of the views of the black community? Who are you to say that a Huddler’s voice on here is worth more than Cris Carter or Shannon Sharpe? Regardless, the reason I brought up their opinions was to challenge yours that every critique about Cam’s character is automatically racially motivated. Are there Cam detractors that are racially motivated? Hell yes...but is everyone that criticizes Cam’s inconsistencies as a whole and his desire and effort in changing his mechanics, automatically a racist? Clearly no, because members of his own community have raised the same questions.

Silly me though, thinking you might actually be willing to have an open discussion about it. Instead, I am apparently also racist along with everyone else. I judge posts and opinions on their own merits...not the skin color of the poster giving it. So when you claim that I have bypassed the opinions of black posters on here, my first question would be who are the black posters on here? I honestly don’t know, and you don’t either unless you’ve personally met them. This is the wonderful land of the Internet where anyone can be whoever they want to be. I can be an 87-year-old black Civil Rights activist, or a 22-year-old Neo-Nazi living in my mom’s basement...the latter of which is how you apparently perceive half of these boards. Who I claim to be on the Internet should not validate or invalidate my opinions...if they are stupid and ignorant then they are stupid and ignorant and should be called out for it. And that goes for everyone else.

[NeedSumD]

10 hours ago, TheRed said:

We get it Lumps. You're a white male who is a member of the law enforcement community and rails against any talk of racism affecting minorities.

Please stop quoting me.

Blue lives matter I stand with Lumps!!!

[NeedSumD]

50 minutes ago, TheRed said:

I'm not completely discounting what they are saying as men. I'm saying what they say on TV for ratings and what they actually feel are two different things. I've also never claimed that there aren't possibly black people out there who may feel this way about Cam Newton. If that's how they feel that's on them. I completely disagree with it, but beyond that what can I do?

But I'm going to be brutally honest here. I'm getting the vibe that you're hiding behind Cris and Shannon via a warped kind of "my black friend" argument, and honestly it's rather revolting. This is mainly due to the fact that you've completely bypassed opinions expressed here by black posters and instead made the views of Cris and Shannon the end all be all for opinions from the black community about Cam Newton.

Yes the only black opinions that matter are pro Cam opinions LOL. I love you Red you’re awesomely consistent with this poo

[Peppers90 NC]

1 hour ago, NeedSumD said:

Yes the only black opinions that matter are pro Cam opinions LOL. I love you Red you’re awesomely consistent with this poo

Two things always more predictable than Shulas playcalling is theReds delusions and love for poop

[TheRed]

2 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

That’s funny because I’ve never even stated my personal views on Cam aside from clearly saying that I DISAGREED with Carter/Sharpe...so really cool Hot Take on me there, bud. I will be sure to reevaluate my life ASAP...thanks for the wake-up call.

If I am making the views of Carter/Sharpe “the end all be all for opinions from the black community about Cam Newton”, then you’re literally doing the exact same thing but with the views from the black posters on this thread or even this board. Who are you to be the arbiter of the views of the black community? Who are you to say that a Huddler’s voice on here is worth more than Cris Carter or Shannon Sharpe? Regardless, the reason I brought up their opinions was to challenge yours that every critique about Cam’s character is automatically racially motivated. Are there Cam detractors that are racially motivated? Hell yes...but is everyone that criticizes Cam’s inconsistencies as a whole and his desire and effort in changing his mechanics, automatically a racist? Clearly no, because members of his own community have raised the same questions.

Silly me though, thinking you might actually be willing to have an open discussion about it. Instead, I am apparently also racist along with everyone else. I judge posts and opinions on their own merits...not the skin color of the poster giving it. So when you claim that I have bypassed the opinions of black posters on here, my first question would be who are the black posters on here? I honestly don’t know, and you don’t either unless you’ve personally met them. This is the wonderful land of the Internet where anyone can be whoever they want to be. I can be an 87-year-old black Civil Rights activist, or a 22-year-old Neo-Nazi living in my mom’s basement...the latter of which is how you apparently perceive half of these boards. Who I claim to be on the Internet should not validate or invalidate my opinions...if they are stupid and ignorant then they are stupid and ignorant and should be called out for it. And that goes for everyone else.

I'm not addressing the entirety of this long winded rant.

All I will say is I've made no attempt to make anyone's opinion the end all be all. You, yes you, are the one who barged in and cited opinions of 2 men who happen to be black and used that as the basis of your argument. I didn't do that. I simply responded to you doing so. You now posturing and falling over yourself to make me look like a reverse racist of some sorts is absurd and laughable.

[Borat]

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/264404/nfl-playoffs-confidential-tackling-todd-gurley-blitzing-tom-brady-stopping-aaron-donald-more

How do you minimize Cam Newton's impact on the game? "You want to make him one-dimensional, and the one dimension you want him to be is throwing the ball," one NFC assistant coach said. "You don't want him running. When he runs, he's a complete mismatch. When he's in the pocket throwing the ball, he's not a mismatch. He's like any other quarterback in the pocket. And even then, he's not a great one. When he's on the loose, he minimizes what you can call. He just makes things hard because no one wants to tackle the big [guy]. If he just stays in the pocket, they're just an average offense. But when he starts to use his legs, whether he's scrambling or whatever he's doing, it's hell for a defense.

RE: the OP though, there’s no “Cam Conundrum” — he is what he is after 7 years in the league: an inconsistent passer but a decidedly good QB overall (when you add in his other talents), albeit with high variance. He’s also way above replacement level so any talk of bringing in a ‘more accurate guy’ (or whatever the pipe dream is) is both a negative EV move and a massive waste of draft / cap resources.

[JARROD]

22 minutes ago, bull123 said:

I am not looking for a social commentary from sports...athletes are not heroes and Ali turned into a militant radical  

You can’t be serious. To say that you would be a militant radical yourself.

even my dad who was a Barry Goldwater guy, Fought Vietnam, hates gun hating liberals,.. blah blah bla.

loved Ali— 

The military offered Ali to fight in the military, never see action and basically be a military poster child.

Ali never waivered on it being a BS war, against his religion.

theres also a lot of commentary publically by him towards the black communities to stop blaming everyone else for its problems, clean up the neighborhoods, and live peacefully.

his talks about the ridiculous way in which we wanted to go defeat communists in other countries while having the racial injustice we did here at the same time was hypocritical and he wasn’t going to be apart of it.

for a couple of years it was believed he would go to a federal penitentiary for a long long time.

it takes a lot of courage to do that. My dad said back then black people he knew hated Ali for those commentaries, and he was shunned by all the pro-war fanatics for his other talks.

he lost his best fighting years because of that, but still has more wins, knockouts, and repeat titles than Smokin Joe ever did.

and he beat George Foreman,... George by the way basically went to church and got saved and went out of boxing because of how badly he killed Frazier.

anyway, Ali is a hero— it takes extreme courage to do what he did. 

Dont think for a second that a lot of big changes socially were not accelerated a great deal because of Ali.

so there.

 

[gringo]

We would have won the SB if Anderson was the QB that game.