Panthers are 5th in scoring since trading Kelvin Benjamin

[SmokinwithWilly]

13 hours ago, Camvp said:

Wonder where the Shula haters are gonna be when they see those numbers? 

 

Still here thinking Shula needs to go. He has shown he has zero lack of ability to plan around the strengths of his players instead of planning right into their weaknesses, like sending our two slowest receivers on 40 yard fly routes when the line can't block longer than 2.5 seconds. He has still shown no ability to make adjustments when a defense throws something at him he hasn't seen. He has benefited from having Cam far more than Cam has benefited from having him. Take Cam away and Shula would have been fired years ago. I think the Panthers can do much better than Shula, but that's going to require getting rid of Ron, which I don't see happening. 

I'll be honest, I'm not sure if Ron is holding him back or not with his ancient offensive philosophies, but his previous track record seems to suggest not. 

[OneBadCat]

2 hours ago, stbugs said:

OK, please tell me where the speed has opened things up? Please do give us just 1 example. Funchess doesn't count. He's averaging almost the exact number of targets before and after KB. It's not Olsen as he's had 1 game and his 2016 season was almost identical to 2014 and 2015. It sure as fug isn't Clay or Shepard because they've done nothing and honestly have hurt more in the passing game stopping drives. It sure isn't Byrd who was non-existent until this week.

So, again, please show us how the field has opened up due to KB being gone. I'm sorry, but you are 100% wrong that KB is a big fuging denominator. Do you really think his leaving has helped the defense get 10 more turnovers in the same amount of games? Do you really think his leaving has helped Kalil turn into a good run blocker? Did KB leaving help Shula go with unbalanced OLs using Moton a lot more as an eligible receiver because I saw that freeing Stewart up for a 60 yard run, not anything to do with KB.

It's amazing that I can give you concrete stuff that actually matters and you are going to try and use Shepard and Clay somehow being a threat instead of KB as the single reason. I'd purport that defenses knowing that Shepard is more of a blocker than a receiving threat would actually bring the safety more in the box. Clay and Shepard have 8 combined receptions in 6 games and probably 8 drops. It's like arguing with a 4 year old with his hands over his ears. It has nothing to do with the love of KB. I'm mad we don't still have him because we are 1 injury away from Damiere Byrd (who I like) being our only WR threat. That happens, enjoy the 1 and done in the playoffs.

All due respect I think Funchess does count. He is naturally more fluid and moves a hell of a lot better than KB did. He looks like a receiver out there. KB looks like a lanky giant trying to play WR.

[OneBadCat]

Makes you wonder how we would look with Samuel still in the mix. I mean Byrd is comparable but I think Samuel a little more talented.

[pantherj]

One good thing sometimes about getting a new GM is that his ego and reputation aren't tied to under performing players, so it's easier to clean out what isn't needed.

Anyone have our W/L record when KB didn't suit up over the last couple of seasons? It's probably a crazy winning percentage.

[Udogg]

47 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Still here thinking Shula needs to go. He has shown he has zero lack of ability to plan around the strengths of his players instead of planning right into their weaknesses, like sending our two slowest receivers on 40 yard fly routes when the line can't block longer than 2.5 seconds. He has still shown no ability to make adjustments when a defense throws something at him he hasn't seen. He has benefited from having Cam far more than Cam has benefited from having him. Take Cam away and Shula would have been fired years ago. I think the Panthers can do much better than Shula, but that's going to require getting rid of Ron, which I don't see happening. 

I'll be honest, I'm not sure if Ron is holding him back or not with his ancient offensive philosophies, but his previous track record seems to suggest not. 

You do realize our entire offensive scheme is based around Cam right?  Zone read's , deeper routes to take advantage of his arm strength, etc.   All for Cam. 

You know what makes less sense than sending our 2 slowest WR's on 40 yard fly routes?  Having same slow receivers run short routes against 8 men in the box.  Or how about implement a quick passing offense with a QB who's weakness is quick passing.  A lot of those checkdowns that go to McCaffrey now were in the offense in previous years.  Cam just didn't use them. 

Watch the all 24 from early in the year, then see if it was Shula or Players fault.   When we play bad it's not all Shula's fault, and when we play good it's not all Cam. I just wish most of you could just ...watch the game objectively.  This Shula fault blah blah blah is so annoying. 

[EgoDogg]

The two stats that really stand out (just looking at this season). We're clearly better off without KB. 

Pre-KB Trade (8 Games):

63.1% Completion
10 Touchdowns
11 Interceptions
79.09 QB Rating

Record - 5-3

Post-KB Trade (6 Games):

55.8% Completion
11 Touchdowns
1 Interceptions
95.24 QB Rating

Record 5-1

[Goondal]

15 hours ago, RelaxImaPro said:

Also worth pointing out that Cam has 13 total TDs to 1 interception over that same span.  Becoming eerily similar to his 2nd half MVP season level numbers.

So wait, is the one a few games back that came off of CMC's hands the only interception since the trade?  That is awesome.  Plus our CBs are finally getting picks.  I like those trends.

[fjblair]

KB was a dud.

[RumHam]

13 hours ago, over the legal limit said:

Hes just cleaning up Gman’s poo. Shaq and Butler are next

Butler needs to go. Shaq is fine though.

[EgoDogg]

53 minutes ago, stbugs said:

While we are at it, here's a few more stats that are pretty relevant, but you left out (most key in bold, which also have way more to do with OL/D than KB):

First 7 games: 4 Defensive Turnovers (4-3), 22 sacks of Cam

Last 7 games: 14 Defensive Turnovers (6-1), 9 sacks of Cam

Rushing Yards Per Game with KB: 97.6

Rushing Yards Per Game after KB: 186.5

Passing Yards Per Game with KB: 213.4

Passing Yards Per Game after KB: 178.2

Damn it, I said last post above. OK, I am done defending KB. He's the devil whose sole purpose was to crush our entire team's dreams and hopes. He single handedly made us lose to NO (which we did again without him), lose to the 12-2 Eagles and lose to the Bears. He even distracted Kurt Coleman with a mirror unsuccessfully to try and get Zay Jones the game winner against Buffalo.

We can jump further into the rabbit hole on this one. If we're going to go into this, we need to start looking into how often the box was loaded with KB in the line-up as opposed to after the trade. I think KB is a great talent with a ton of potential to be a top wideout. I just don't think it was the right fit for our offense. We're better off friends instead of in a long, expensive, committed relationship with him.

[TheSpecialJuan]

10 hours ago, Porn Shop Clerk said:

did gettleman fug your wife, son?

BRUTAL!!  and ruthlesss!

[Saca312]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Those are huge trends. Cam doesn't have to do as much and doesn't have to force bad throws to win games. When the OL is running well and keeping pressure off Cam and the D is turning over the ball, that's 2015. It's also not due to KB good or bad.

Our run game being more prolific and our offense better all around helps with KB’s poor play gone.

KB can’t block to save his life, and he certainly takes too much attention and hogs targets better used elsewhere.

 

[JARROD]

KB is gone. There was a lot of happy and salt then,... but he’s gone.

whats the point of all this.

kb by himself kept our defense from getting turnovers, kept cam from running more, kept the offensive line from doing better and caused Shula to call Stewart up the gut 100 times on first down?

good lord people. If trading him made our staff smarter and all the players all of a sudden play better as a team,.. dammit that’s great!

i believe too much credit is thrown that way.

lastly,.. who cares today.

[SmokinwithWilly]

2 hours ago, Udogg said:

You do realize our entire offensive scheme is based around Cam right?  Zone read's , deeper routes to take advantage of his arm strength, etc.   All for Cam. 

You know what makes less sense than sending our 2 slowest WR's on 40 yard fly routes?  Having same slow receivers run short routes against 8 men in the box.  Or how about implement a quick passing offense with a QB who's weakness is quick passing.  A lot of those checkdowns that go to McCaffrey now were in the offense in previous years.  Cam just didn't use them. 

Watch the all 24 from early in the year, then see if it was Shula or Players fault.   When we play bad it's not all Shula's fault, and when we play good it's not all Cam. I just wish most of you could just ...watch the game objectively.  This Shula fault blah blah blah is so annoying. 

I do watch the game objectively and a lot of offensive problems do fall onto the players and execution. Cam has his shortcomings and his short game sucking is probably the worst one, followed by throwing off his back foot even when he's not under pressure. That's part of Cam's development and after 7 years, it should be better than what it is. Getting Cam's quick passing game where it needs to be and mechanics fall on the QB coach. 

However, it doesn't make more sense to send guys on routes that are going to take 5-6 seconds to execute when Cam is going to be scrambling for his life under 3? Why even run those at all if there's almost zero chance you'll even get a chance to pass it? It makes it easy to stack 8 in the box because either we're running it or the pass play were running takes too long to develop so it's QB pressure or a sack. Also, we've rarely used our backs out of the field on designed underneath passes even though they can catch passes. It's an aspect that our offense has lacked for years, and not just because Cam wasn't doing check downs. 

Shula is going to run his game no matter what even when it's not working. He's that guy that will try something 20 more times with catastrophic failure just because it worked once. And we can go on about how many TOs get burned because the plays don't get in in time. Shula's not 100% to blame for the offensive failures. I do think he and Ron are the wrong coaches for Cam. I don't think their offensive philosophies are right for his skill set and this offense needs a HC and OC that are more creative.