Panthers are 5th in scoring since trading Kelvin Benjamin

[OneBadCat]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Funchess was already getting more targets than KB. How are we stretching the field with who has replaced KB?

Funchess was starting with KB, he didn’t replace him. Funny stat. Funchess has just over 7 targets with KB in 8 games and guess what, he has just over 7 targets a game in the 6 without him. 

The Funchess has replaced KB and KB was stealing his opportunity is 100% inaccurate. Funchess was the number 1 target before and after KB. 

Right but that doesn’t mean Cam wasn’t looking at KB at the wrong times when he had Funchess wide open. Whatever has changed the offense is obviously looking a lot better.

[TheRed]

What does this say for our previous GM?

[TruthVsComfort]

Trading KB was an excellent move by Hurney. It has allowed Funchess and others to get more targets and allowed for more speed on the field all while gaining us a third round draft pick. Liked the move when it initially occurred and love the move now having seen the results. 

Im not sure Byrd would be getting the opportunity he has been recently if KB is still here. And Byrd is really developing into a reliable weapon now.

Nothing against KB and I wish him the best. I think he can be a great possession receiver but I believe Funchess gives us that and more versatility.

[Davidson Deac II]

29 minutes ago, PantherBrew said:

This is all well and good, but there is still one big fuging denominator.  

After the trade, the team told us they wanted more speed on the field to open things up. 

So now, the field has opened up and we are reaping the benefits.  Just like the entire 2015 season.  

I know some of yall love KB, but jeez.

When teams can run single high safety on you all game long it makes everything else so much damned harder.

Has the field opened up?  How do you prove such a thing.  It seems to me that most of the scoring increase is due to Oline blocking better, Cam running better and more turnovers forced by the defense.  Byrd has only played the last two games, and just caught his first td pass.  Samuel only played in one after KB left.   We still haven't shown a deep threat.   I just have a hard time believing that defenses are so worried about Clay, Sheppard and Bersin, that they are changing their defense.  In my opinion, teams are still playing 8 in the box against us, we are just handling it better.  

I personally don't have an issue with KB being gone, but I do think the timing was bad.  And if him being gone is the panacea our offense needed, then its an indication our coaching staff on the offensive side either didn't know what it was doing, or was unable to man up and deal with reducing KB's playing time.  

[CPF4LIFE]

So gettlemans poor decisions was holding this team back?

 Not surprising.

[PantherBrew]

3 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Has the field opened up?  How do you prove such a thing.  It seems to me that most of the scoring increase is due to Oline blocking better, Cam running better and more turnovers forced by the defense.  Byrd has only played the last two games, and just caught his first td pass.  Samuel only played in one after KB left.   We still haven't shown a deep threat.   I just have a hard time believing that defenses are so worried about Clay, Sheppard and Bersin, that they are changing their defense.  In my opinion, teams are still playing 8 in the box against us, we are just handling it better.  

I personally don't have an issue with KB being gone, but I do think the timing was bad.  And if him being gone is the panacea our offense needed, then its an indication our coaching staff on the offensive side either didn't know what it was doing, or was unable to man up and deal with reducing KB's playing time.  

4

Well, when I watch our offense.  I don't watch the secondary.  I don't have the stats in front of me, but I have noticed we are getting a lot of two high looks in the back end.  

Run blocking looks better when you have to block 7  instead of 8.  

I am not saying KB sucks, but the Panthers did not trade him on a whim or for no reason.  They literally told us why when they did it.  

When your X receiver can be single covered then it really limits what you can do on the rest of the field. 

 

 

[Davidson Deac II]

24 minutes ago, PantherBrew said:

Well, when I watch our offense.  I don't watch the secondary.  I don't have the stats in front of me, but I have noticed we are getting a lot of two high looks in the back end.  

Run blocking looks better when you have to block 7  instead of 8.  

I am not saying KB sucks, but the Panthers did not trade him on a whim or for no reason.  They literally told us why when they did it.  

When your X receiver can be single covered then it really limits what you can do on the rest of the field. 

 

 

I went back and looked at the highlight plays, couldn't look at the whole game.  But I didn't see any evidence that any of our WR's were being double covered, although I will admit my look was limited.  

Also, if you take away points on or after turnovers, or even just points after turnovers that gave us the ball on the other side of the 50,  and our one special teams td, I wouldn't hazard a guess that our offensive points per game hasn't changed much since KB left.  

[thefuzz]

51 minutes ago, TheRed said:

What does this say for our previous GM?

I think it says that he thought that Funch would grow into a different type receiver.

It also says that he, at least to me, drafted by his board/grade.  Both KB and Funch are good NFL players, they were just too similar to be on the field together, and Funch is younger, cheaper (for now), and healthier.

[PantherBrew]

15 minutes ago, stbugs said:

OK, please tell me where the speed has opened things up? Please do give us just 1 example. Funchess doesn't count. He's averaging almost the exact number of targets before and after KB. It's not Olsen as he's had 1 game and his 2016 season was almost identical to 2014 and 2015. It sure as fug isn't Clay or Shepard because they've done nothing and honestly have hurt more in the passing game stopping drives. It sure isn't Byrd who was non-existent until this week.

So, again, please show us how the field has opened up due to KB being gone. I'm sorry, but you are 100% wrong that KB is a big fuging denominator. Do you really think his leaving has helped the defense get 10 more turnovers in the same amount of games? Do you really think his leaving has helped Kalil turn into a good run blocker? Did KB leaving help Shula go with unbalanced OLs using Moton a lot more as an eligible receiver because I saw that freeing Stewart up for a 60 yard run, not anything to do with KB.

It's amazing that I can give you concrete stuff that actually matters and you are going to try and use Shepard and Clay somehow being a threat instead of KB as the single reason. I'd purport that defenses knowing that Shepard is more of a blocker than a receiving threat would actually bring the safety more in the box. Clay and Shepard have 8 combined receptions in 6 games and probably 8 drops. It's like arguing with a 4 year old with his hands over his ears. It has nothing to do with the love of KB. I'm mad we don't still have him because we are 1 injury away from Damiere Byrd (who I like) being our only WR threat. That happens, enjoy the 1 and done in the playoffs.

Funchess being the X is very significant. 

All these outcomes are intertwined. 

Would we still be awful on offense with the improved run blocking and KB on this team, probably not. 

Are we better no that he isnt on the offense and the run blocking has also improved, IMO yes. 

I mean, I liked KB, and I dont' blame Getts for drafting him.  I wanted him. 

But, I am not saying you are completely wrong.  I think just assuming that it is one big timing coincidence that everything substantially improved in 2015 and 2017 is a stretch.  

Oh yeah, discussions about this are fun without trying to insult someone or belittling them.  

 

[UpstatePanther]

I really do think this has been a larger team effort that has contributed to our offense playing better.

I wont sit here and say that KB's trade had nothing to do with it, because i think it had a huge impact. But...

• so has Mike Shula finally getting his head out of his ass for the most part,
• so has Cam (re)learning how to survive without staring KB down on every play,
• so has the defense causing more turnovers,
• so has getting Greg Olsen back,
• so has the OL blocking better in both pass and run, and
• so has CMC starting to catch fire.

There have been alot of things that have contributed to this Panthers team starting to gather some momentum and play like a playoff contender. The KB trade is one of them, but it certainly is not the only one.

 

 

One thing is for sure... if we win the Super Bowl, i am going to look forward to watching "America's Game: The 2017 Panthers" when it comes out in the summer. it would be an epic tale week to week of how this team overcame adversity almost every week to will themselves to a championship. and if we win said Super Bowl, i am going to cry like a child with no shame whatsoever because of how hard this team has fought this year.

 

 

 

[Shocker]

I've seen this before...get rid of a guy and all the problems were his fault.  Good tactic.

[PantherBrew]

1 minute ago, UpstatePanther said:

I really do think this has been a larger team effort that has contributed to our offense playing better.

Iwont sit here and say that KB's trade had nothing to do with it, because i think it had a huge impact. But...

• so has Mike Shula finally getting his head out of his ass for the most part,
• so has Cam (re)learning how to survive without staring KB down on every play,
• so has the defense causing more turnovers,
• so has getting Greg Olsen back,
• so has the OL blocking better in both pass and run, and
• so has CMC starting to catch fire.

There have been alot of things that have contributed to this Panthers team starting to gather some momentum and play like a playoff contender. The KB trade is one of them, but it certainly is not the only one.

 

 

 

4

This is probably the fairest take and closest to the truth. 

 

[LA_Panther]

We still need to get real receivers. No more practice squads WRs and WRs that barely start on other teams

[grimesgoat]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

OK, please tell me where the speed has opened things up? Please do give us just 1 example. Funchess doesn't count. He's averaging almost the exact number of targets before and after KB. It's not Olsen as he's had 1 game and his 2016 season was almost identical to 2014 and 2015. It sure as fug isn't Clay or Shepard because they've done nothing and honestly have hurt more in the passing game stopping drives. It sure isn't Byrd who was non-existent until this week.

So, again, please show us how the field has opened up due to KB being gone. I'm sorry, but you are 100% wrong that KB is a big fuging denominator. Do you really think his leaving has helped the defense get 10 more turnovers in the same amount of games? Do you really think his leaving has helped Kalil turn into a good run blocker? Did KB leaving help Shula go with unbalanced OLs using Moton a lot more as an eligible receiver because I saw that freeing Stewart up for a 60 yard run, not anything to do with KB.

It's amazing that I can give you concrete stuff that actually matters and you are going to try and use Shepard and Clay somehow being a threat instead of KB as the single reason. I'd purport that defenses knowing that Shepard is more of a blocker than a receiving threat would actually bring the safety more in the box. Clay and Shepard have 8 combined receptions in 6 games and probably 8 drops. It's like arguing with a 4 year old with his hands over his ears. It has nothing to do with the love of KB. I'm mad we don't still have him because we are 1 injury away from Damiere Byrd (who I like) being our only WR threat. That happens, enjoy the 1 and done in the playoffs.

My understanding is that getting more speed on the field was the main purpose for the KB move.  That has not necessarily translated into a ton of completed bombs, but just the threat itself will make the defense adjust. 

Knowing a Bird or Clay can run circles around your CB will make a safety cheat a little.  Ironically, the fact these guys do not have a ton of catches might be a clue they are drawing more attention than KB was, leaving more completions on shorter routes.

I'm afraid individual stats may not tell the whole story.  We may need to dig a little deeper.