We won, but I still do not like Rivera and more epiphanies

[sharkkiller]

56 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Shula called a terrible game 

What? Your bias is showing.

[GoobyPls]

21 minutes ago, sharkkiller said:

What? Your bias is showing.

Nope, he’s lucky we were facing the only coordinator dumber than him in Capers.

[MHS831]

19 hours ago, thomas96 said:

Rivera's coached us to the 6th or 7th (I forget which) best record in the league since he and Cam have been here. People need to stop ripping him to shreds here. He's a way better coach than most others. 

You said it--SInce Cam has been here---I think Cam saved him, not the other way around.  I think Brady and Manning made a few coaches look good as well.  I see your point, but I think we win despite the coaching, not because we have good coaching.

[MHS831]

18 hours ago, sharkkiller said:

What? Your bias is showing.

I think Shula sucks when he is asked to protect the lead, but he has done a good job otherwise.  I am tired of losing double-digit, fourth quarter leads (like we nearly did Sunday), but I think he is told to run the ball, so he runs it.  When  you have a good D, you reduce risk and burn clock.   Defensively, we tend to give up a quick score following getting a big lead.  Soft defense is going to give in,,

[t96]

Just now, MHS831 said:

I think we win despite the coaching, not because we have good coaching.

That is ridiculous. Plenty of amazing QBs, better QBs than Cam, are on losing teams. This is the ultimate team game in all of pro sports and one player doesn't make a team successful, no matter who the player is or what position he plays. 

[MHS831]

7 minutes ago, thomas96 said:

That is ridiculous. Plenty of amazing QBs, better QBs than Cam, are on losing teams. This is the ultimate team game in all of pro sports and one player doesn't make a team successful, no matter who the player is or what position he plays. 

Name them.

-SO you are saying that a good qb does not make a coach better because you can think of an example or two that contradicts this premise?  Because one player does not make a team successful?  Really?  So in baseball, the dominant pitcher has no disproportionate impact on wins and losses?  The same as the right fielder or shortstop?  Without Michael Jordan, the Bulls still win 5 titles?   Yet no other position in all of team sports has more impact on wins and losses than the NFL QB.  To assume there is no impact is ridiculous. RR is a player's coach, but not a great sideline game manager.  There are many cases where this has been demonstrated which makes the concept a far cry from ridiculous.  When Cam struggles, we tend to lose.  When he plays well, we tend to win.   

[Chris1]

35 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Name them.

-SO you are saying that a good qb does not make a coach better because you can think of an example or two that contradicts this premise?  Because one player does not make a team successful?  Really?  So in baseball, the dominant pitcher has no disproportionate impact on wins and losses?  The same as the right fielder or shortstop?  Without Michael Jordan, the Bulls still win 5 titles?   Yet no other position in all of team sports has more impact on wins and losses than the NFL QB.  To assume there is no impact is ridiculous. RR is a player's coach, but not a great sideline game manager.  There are many cases where this has been demonstrated which makes the concept a far cry from ridiculous.  When Cam struggles, we tend to lose.  When he plays well, we tend to win.   

He struggled in some games this year that the Panthers still won, more than often when the qb doesn't play well the team loses, that applies to all teams, you're discrediting the Panthers defense which has been the reason the Panthers won a lot of these games, last years defense in these close games would've been guaranteed another losing season no matter what Newton did. Was Sean Payton considered a good coach the past 3 years? No he wasn't now all a sudden because the N.O. are playing about what was expected of them this year he's a "great coach", N.O. has always been a top scoring team with him but they're actually decent on defense this year that has been the difference. The only team whose coaching staff has consistently been successful in the regular season and playoffs since the new millennium is the New England Patriots.

[MHS831]

26 minutes ago, Chris1 said:

He struggled in some games this year that the Panthers still won, more than often when the qb doesn't play well the team loses, that applies to all teams, you're discrediting the Panthers defense which has been the reason the Panthers won a lot of these games, last years defense in these close games would've been guaranteed another losing season no matter what Newton did. Was Sean Payton considered a good coach the past 3 years? No he wasn't now all a sudden because the N.O. are playing about what was expected of them this year he's a "great coach", N.O. has always been a top scoring team with him but they're actually decent on defense this year that has been the difference. The only team whose coaching staff has consistently been successful in the regular season and playoffs since the new millennium is the New England Patriots.

To suggest that Cam Newton is not the reason this  team is elite is not accurate.  There are no successful NFL teams that do not have good QBs. There are always exceptions, but it is usually a losing argument when you have to find one example to illustrate a point when there are dozens that dispute it. 

[Chris1]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

To suggest that Cam Newton is not the reason this  team is elite is not accurate.  There are no successful NFL teams that do not have good QBs. There are always exceptions, but it is usually a losing argument when you have to find one example to illustrate a point when there are dozens that dispute it. 

I didn't say he wasn't the reason they're good, I said the defense has helped carried the team this year which it has. With a worse defense those games against the Falcons, Bills, Vikings, Packers, and even Jets would've been losses and there's no debating that.

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

21 hours ago, thomas96 said:

Rivera's coached us to the 6th or 7th (I forget which) best record in the league since he and Cam have been here. People need to stop ripping him to shreds here. He's a way better coach than most others. 

Also Rivera was taking over a 2 win team that was locked in Hurney-Cap hell to the Mutha Freaking Superbowl. 

How quickly we are to forget those last few soul sucking Fox years and think there is a better coach out there that can take us to a 16-0 record bc he yells at players on TV. 

Rivera's allegiance to Shula is definitely maddening but that stubborn patience also had us all witness Shula(who is still mostly awful imo) have the #1 offense in the NFL and have his QB win the MVP. 

Again Rivera/Cam own the 7th best win percentage in the NFL since they arrived. This ride has surpassed my wildest expectations of both of them. It is not without its flaws but here is to 5 more years with Cam-Vera. 

 

[Darvinsun]

1 hour ago, thomas96 said:

That is ridiculous. Plenty of amazing QBs, better QBs than Cam, are on losing teams. This is the ultimate team game in all of pro sports and one player doesn't make a team successful, no matter who the player is or what position he plays. 

He did not say Cam if he did he meant team.We are winning in pite of the coaches..Every week our coaches are out coached,  every week a spectacular play is made by a player to save the game..it is bc the coaching staff has a tendency to go away from what works..its not the players making those decisions it is the coaches..It makes no sense..the players are willing the team to victory in pite of the bad decisions 

[Pantherxtreme]

Rivera is the best head coach the Panthers have ever had, he has a below average offensive coordinator true.

But his defenses have been elite for the most part he's been here. He also had top rated defenses when he was just a coordinator, those are not coincidences.

And we've gone to the playoffs more than any period of our history including a Super Bowl appearance.

And this has been amid good ole fashion home grown controversies and the fake news created ones by the national media. 



 

[Darvinsun]

I believe Rivera is John Foxesque he can get you to the SB but will not win one bc he will get out coached by the opposition..Yes this is part Shula fault, but let' say we were up in the SB 50 can you not say that he would not allow the teams to comeback with bad decisions. I can not bc of his tendencies during regular season. The players always have to give 110 % while the coaches give 50%. He can' get out of his own way. Good coach..not so sure just average to me. Any average coachcan win with talented smart players, but it takes a good coach to win against a good / great coach to win the SB...he has to step his game up just like the players.

[MHS831]

6 minutes ago, Darvinsun said:

I believe Rivera is John Foxesque he can get you to the SB but will not win one bc he will get out coached by the opposition..Yes this is part Shula fault, but let' say we were up in the SB 50 can you not say that he would not allow the teams to comeback with bad decisions. I can not bc of his tendencies during regular season. The players always have to give 110 % while the coaches give 50%. He can' get out of his own way. Good coach..not so sure just average to me. Any average coachcan win with talented smart players, but it takes a good coach to win against a good / great coach to win the SB...he has to step his game up just like the players.

I see it this way.  Rivera had one opportunity to do something to help this team win and he watched Rogers rush to snap the ball while our D was confused.  We did not need the timeouts.  Good coaches help teams win.  I can't  recall the details, but there have been articles that disputed his decisions mathematically.  He should know the odds.  For example, but kicking a FG against  Buffalo (back in 2014) putting us up by 6.  They won.  The rationale?  Buffalo would play to tie if we went for it and did not get it or punted.  Down by 6, you make them go for a TD--giving them an extra down etc.  The odds of winning were actually diminished when we scored points vs. 2 scenarios where we didn't.  Experienced coaches know the odds.  He didn't.  Just 1 of many examples.