The Last Jedi *Spoilers*

[Johnny Rockets]

1 hour ago, fitty76 said:

Love the movie except for Rose.  Rose is probably the worst Star Wars character since Jar-Jar.  So disappointed she wasn't dead at the end.  

I tend to agree with that. Didn't like her character at all. I liked Jar-Jar much more in fact. That's my personal non galactic point of view. 

BTW- how do we know she isn't dead? I must have missed that. 

[d-dave]

I saw the film and loved it.  I understand people don't like it because it wasn't a "star wars" movie.  That's fine.  I like that this marks a severing of the old to the new.  The only continuous ideas are the Good vs Evil, visual design, light sabers, and Chewie.  I understand why they did that: you can't retell the same story over and over again.

The Force Awakens was super fun, but it was basically A New Hope.  While The Last Jedi had more than a passing similarity to The Empire Strikes Back, it diverged, HARD.  I'm fine with that.  From a narrative standpoint, they have to do something different.  That's not going to sit well with those who cling to the "perfection" of IV-VI.

I also enjoyed the quips.  The humor was ramped up in this one compared to others.  It helped to break tension, which allowed it to grow and feel more menacing.  There were several moments where characters did things that would have NEVER happened in the "standard" Star Wars model.  It was really different, and I loved that.

There was some major fat to be trimmed.  The whole l337 hax0r on the party planet did not have any real weight.  Sure it was nice to see some interactions between Finn and Rose, and to introduce the kids.  But the whole thing should have been cut out.  It was just a crappy side plot.  Poo poo.  I did enjoy seeing how the elite of the empire lived, and I wish they had used the war profiteering as a better theme throughout the film.  That was far too heavy handed and not what it could have been.

I get why people did not like the film, but I loved it.  I was entranced throughout the film and ate it all up.  Just a great and fun experience for me.  I can't wait to see it again over the holidays.  That might change how I view it, but for now,  I really like the direction of Star Wars moving forward.  Instead of iconic heroes, find your own hero in yourself.  Like the boy at the end.  

I am curious where the story goes from here.  How will the resistance rebuild?  What is the actual galactic government now?  Will Kylo Ren pout the First Order to death?  Will Hucks kill him next time he throw him into a wall?  

Here's a good review:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-last-jedi-killed-my-childhood-and-thats-exactly-wh-1821429836

[Johnny Rockets]

2 minutes ago, d-dave said:

I saw the film and loved it.  I understand people don't like it because it wasn't a "star wars" movie.  That's fine.  I like that this marks a severing of the old to the new.  The only continuous ideas are the Good vs Evil, visual design, light sabers, and Chewie.  I understand why they did that: you can't retell the same story over and over again.

The Force Awakens was super fun, but it was basically A New Hope.  While The Last Jedi had more than a passing similarity to The Empire Strikes Back, it diverged, HARD.  I'm fine with that.  From a narrative standpoint, they have to do something different.  That's not going to sit well with those who cling to the "perfection" of IV-VI.

I also enjoyed the quips.  The humor was ramped up in this one compared to others.  It helped to break tension, which allowed it to grow and feel more menacing.  There were several moments where characters did things that would have NEVER happened in the "standard" Star Wars model.  It was really different, and I loved that.

There was some major fat to be trimmed.  The whole l337 hax0r on the party planet did not have any real weight.  Sure it was nice to see some interactions between Finn and Rose, and to introduce the kids.  But the whole thing should have been cut out.  It was just a crappy side plot.  Poo poo.  I did enjoy seeing how the elite of the empire lived, and I wish they had used the war profiteering as a better theme throughout the film.  That was far too heavy handed and not what it could have been.

I get why people did not like the film, but I loved it.  I was entranced throughout the film and ate it all up.  Just a great and fun experience for me.  I can't wait to see it again over the holidays.  That might change how I view it, but for now,  I really like the direction of Star Wars moving forward.  Instead of iconic heroes, find your own hero in yourself.  Like the boy at the end.  

I am curious where the story goes from here.  How will the resistance rebuild?  What is the actual galactic government now?  Will Kylo Ren pout the First Order to death?  Will Hucks kill him next time he throw him into a wall?  

^^^This^^^ is exactly what I meant a couple of days ago when I chose to so eloquently say this instead:

I liked it. Easy to follow and cleared some things up for me. 

Glad I saw it.

That's all I got. 

[d-dave]

57 minutes ago, Johnny Rockets said:

^^^This^^^ is exactly what I meant a couple of days ago when I chose to so eloquently say this instead:

I liked it. Easy to follow and cleared some things up for me. 

Glad I saw it.

That's all I got. 

Thanks =)

I also want to say it was just more fun than the older star wars films.  TFA had some fun, but TLJ really wanted the audience to enJOY the film.

[Davidson Deac II]

19 hours ago, cookinwithgas said:

ESB was not received poorly LOL but yeah people were not happy they had to wait three years for the end. They were pissed off about things like Ewoks. Empire was better in most regards other than novelty than the original. To have the big battle set piece at the start of the movie was a risky choice but it made it great.

It was by some critics.  We didn't have social media then, so we don't know what the initial reception from fanboys was.

http://www.nytimes.com/1980/06/15/movies/moviesspecial/15EMPI.html

Quote

The Empire Strikes Back" is not a truly terrible movie. It's a nice movie. It's not, by any means, as nice as "Star Wars." It's not as fresh and funny and surprising and witty, but it is nice and inoffensive and, in a way that no one associated with it need be ashamed of, it's also silly. Attending to it is a lot like reading the middle of a comic book. It is amusing in fitful patches but you're likely to find more beauty, suspense, discipline, craft and art when watching a New York harbor pilot bring the Queen Elizabeth 2 into her Hudson River berth, which is what "The Empire Strikes Back" most reminds me of. It's a big, expensive, time-consuming, essentially mechanical operation.

 

[Davidson Deac II]

1 hour ago, d-dave said:

I saw the film and loved it.  I understand people don't like it because it wasn't a "star wars" movie.  That's fine.  I like that this marks a severing of the old to the new.  The only continuous ideas are the Good vs Evil, visual design, light sabers, and Chewie.  I understand why they did that: you can't retell the same story over and over again.

The Force Awakens was super fun, but it was basically A New Hope.  While The Last Jedi had more than a passing similarity to The Empire Strikes Back, it diverged, HARD.  I'm fine with that.  From a narrative standpoint, they have to do something different.  That's not going to sit well with those who cling to the "perfection" of IV-VI.

I also enjoyed the quips.  The humor was ramped up in this one compared to others.  It helped to break tension, which allowed it to grow and feel more menacing.  There were several moments where characters did things that would have NEVER happened in the "standard" Star Wars model.  It was really different, and I loved that.

There was some major fat to be trimmed.  The whole l337 hax0r on the party planet did not have any real weight.  Sure it was nice to see some interactions between Finn and Rose, and to introduce the kids.  But the whole thing should have been cut out.  It was just a crappy side plot.  Poo poo.  I did enjoy seeing how the elite of the empire lived, and I wish they had used the war profiteering as a better theme throughout the film.  That was far too heavy handed and not what it could have been.

I get why people did not like the film, but I loved it.  I was entranced throughout the film and ate it all up.  Just a great and fun experience for me.  I can't wait to see it again over the holidays.  That might change how I view it, but for now,  I really like the direction of Star Wars moving forward.  Instead of iconic heroes, find your own hero in yourself.  Like the boy at the end.  

I am curious where the story goes from here.  How will the resistance rebuild?  What is the actual galactic government now?  Will Kylo Ren pout the First Order to death?  Will Hucks kill him next time he throw him into a wall?  

I liked it quite a bit as well.  Still would like to find out more about Snoke's back story, but I suppose that will come out in some books eventually.

[CarolinaCoolin]

The whole “democratization” of the Force/ glad its not just about the skywalkers hot take is garbage and here’s why:

 

the whole story of star wars is centered around the skywalkers. At the beginning of a new hope you have 6 Force users alive. Obi, yoda, sidious, Vader, Luke and leia. Now this is years after a huge Jedi and force user purge where anyone and everyone asscioated with Jedi and the light side of the force were hunted and killed. Obi wan dies, yoda Force ghosts Vader dies and sidious dies. Leaving only Luke and leia as the force users known  in the the galaxy. Skywalkers.

 

in the prequels you have the height of a Jedi order with hundreds of Jedi and force users with no mention of bloodlines.

along comes a miracle fatherless birth of anakin skywalker. A magical birth. A birth foretold and who would later grow up to balance the force. He has two kids.

 

thats the whole family tree. Anakin and his two kids. Then kylo if you want to throw him in there but that isn’t like the force is undemocratic. It’s that they were the only known force users left in the entire galaxy and the entire story revolves around this miracle family. 

 

To hype up reys parentage only to be like it’s not important is cheap and lazy writing. Especially her having some connection to anakins lightsaber only for them to go in some different direction and be like they were nobodies. 

 

Cheap and lazy, along with snokes backstory. Let’s build all this hype and mystery in the first movie then completely step away from in the second. Dumb

[CarolinaCoolin]

And this is coming from a guy who usually defends everything and isn’t hyper critically when it comes to movies and shows. I spent years defending the walking dead and it’s creative choices but these choices are creative. It’s lazy

[cookinwithgas]

Her connection to the Lightsaber is simple; it's strong in the Force and she is awakening to that in herself. It actually does not have to be some crazy mystery. AS far as Snoke I totally get your point, but I never actually cared about that stuff. I felt that Lucas telling us all the backstories about the things we wanted to know about ended up being kind of a letdown - what we would think about those things in our own heads were better. Snoke was there for one reason; to get Kylo Ren into power in the story, with a great motive for taking his place over his master, which we have heard a lot about but not seen much of.

 

That being said I do think a lot of stuff was underwritten or glossed over due to the amount of stuff flung at the screen; they really wanted to give people their moneys worth with this movie.

[CarolinaCoolin]

9 minutes ago, cookinwithgas said:

Her connection to the Lightsaber is simple; it's strong in the Force and she is awakening to that in herself. It actually does not have to be some crazy mystery. AS far as Snoke I totally get your point, but I never actually cared about that stuff. I felt that Lucas telling us all the backstories about the things we wanted to know about ended up being kind of a letdown - what we would think about those things in our own heads were better. Snoke was there for one reason; to get Kylo Ren into power in the story, with a great motive for taking his place over his master, which we have heard a lot about but not seen much of.

 

That being said I do think a lot of stuff was underwritten or glossed over due to the amount of stuff flung at the screen; they really wanted to give people their moneys worth with this movie.

Why didn’t Luke have that when he felt his own fathers lightsaber and was having the force awaken in himself? 

If you are going to make Rey’s parents a mystery and hype it up AND have it shown that she has some connection to the saber has it was calling her towards it they need to explain better why that happened.

 

if her parentage was never important don’t hype it up at such. 

[R0CKnR0LLA]

man what a pile of crap. there's really bad cringe-worthy writing throughout the entire movie. so much of it seems contrived and forced. then there's huge chunks that i didn't care about and were pointless. and there's no real saving grace to balance out the bad stuff either. throughout the movie i went back and forth from being completely bored to rolling my eyes at how bad the writing and dialogue were

i wouldn't say it's as bad as the prequels but it's pretty damn close. this is a star wars movie for crying out loud and it's at 50% on rotten tomatoes

[d-dave]

15 hours ago, CarolinaCoolin said:

Why didn’t Luke have that when he felt his own fathers lightsaber and was having the force awaken in himself? 

If you are going to make Rey’s parents a mystery and hype it up AND have it shown that she has some connection to the saber has it was calling her towards it they need to explain better why that happened.

 

if her parentage was never important don’t hype it up at such. 

Remember, Luke cut himself off from the Force.  He was angry at everything for his failure as a Jedi Master: himself, the force, everyone.  Then some chick is like "Here's your laser sword, teach me bro."  Of course he would toss it.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the choices made in TLJ.  I think part of the issue is that JJ Abrams made a new Star Wars movie using some different parts, but the same glue of 4-6.  Johnson said screw it, and made his own Star Wars movie that allowed a transition away from sacred cows of the prior films.  I don't see that as lazy compared to if they just made an Empire with the new cast.

I am so happy they didn't make Rey a Skywalker.  The first movie was The Force AWAKENS.  After the slaughter of the Jedi and the Sith, the Force went very dormant, only appearing through a few choice individuals.  Now the Force is manifesting into new and different individuals.  This creates a very good field for new Star Wars stories for the future.'

The Last Jedi wasn't perfect, but I really liked it.  Not sure how it will rate among my favorite Star Wars films, but it certainly changed the direction of the universe.  I really like that it's not just up to a small family of Jedi to save the universe anymore.  It's a good message for the 21st century.

[Cary Kollins]

4 hours ago, R0CKnR0LLA said:

 this is a star wars movie for crying out loud and it's at 50% on rotten tomatoes

 

wat

TOMATOMETER

93%

Average Rating: 8.1/10

Reviews Counted: 318

Fresh: 295

Rotten: 23

 

Critics Consensus: Star Wars: The Last Jedi honors the saga's rich legacy while adding some surprising twists -- and delivering all the emotion-rich action fans could hope for.

 

If you're referring to the "audience score" of 53%, there is a simple explanation for that. Rotten Tomato audience poll is an "opt-in" survey, meaning the participants chose to participate in the survey themselves...which for example could lend itself to manipulation by a subset of butthurt fanboys a la Star Wars The Last Jedi or say Batman v Superman.

[CarolinaCoolin]

1 hour ago, d-dave said:

Remember, Luke cut himself off from the Force.  He was angry at everything for his failure as a Jedi Master: himself, the force, everyone.  Then some chick is like "Here's your laser sword, teach me bro."  Of course he would toss it.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the choices made in TLJ.  I think part of the issue is that JJ Abrams made a new Star Wars movie using some different parts, but the same glue of 4-6.  Johnson said screw it, and made his own Star Wars movie that allowed a transition away from sacred cows of the prior films.  I don't see that as lazy compared to if they just made an Empire with the new cast.

I am so happy they didn't make Rey a Skywalker.  The first movie was The Force AWAKENS.  After the slaughter of the Jedi and the Sith, the Force went very dormant, only appearing through a few choice individuals.  Now the Force is manifesting into new and different individuals.  This creates a very good field for new Star Wars stories for the future.'

The Last Jedi wasn't perfect, but I really liked it.  Not sure how it will rate among my favorite Star Wars films, but it certainly changed the direction of the universe.  I really like that it's not just up to a small family of Jedi to save the universe anymore.  It's a good message for the 21st century.

I wasn’t talking about Luke feeling it at the beginning of TLJ. I’m talking about it when obi wan gave it to him in ANH. 

They created something completely new for Rey who had some connection to the ligjtsaber and maz even says the saber was calling her. But then shift away from that.

 

and you are wrong about the force being dormant. The force has always been around. After ROTJ Luke started the order again, many non skywalker force users existed until Kylo killed them. 

The force has always been seen in people who aren’t skywalkers. But Star Wars about the skywalkers. The whole story and why it is where it is right is because of the skywalker family, to tease Rey’s parentage mystery than 180 from that was stupid and lazy writing. If you wanted her to be a non skywalker say that from the beginning instead of hyping it up.

the original trilogy is about a boy(skywalker) who helps save the universe.

prequel is about his fathers(skywalker) fall to darkness.

 

this trilogy.. about some people completely random that came out of no where. Where Rey is super important but not important at all. Dumb. Lazy writing.