The Last Jedi *Spoilers*

[davos]

19 minutes ago, Still Brooklyn said:

Saw it today finally. I read the spoilers, read the reviews, and read forum threads going in.

I loved it. Second favorite behind ESB.

All you "nostalgia guys" need to watch it again ... but as a movie. Not as the Space Opera you saw as a kid and formed a bond with. As a film, though a tad long, it's quite wonderful.

The middle part everyone hates actually wasn't bad at all. True, they didn't break the code, but the actual story of that act worked very well. Finn and Rose made friends and had a great adventure, Del Toro played a great character, we got to see a fun world we'd never seen before with stuff we'd never seen before, and the whole thing was different than anything in any previous film. It simply worked.

Luke stole the damn show with Ren not far behind. Kylo is supposed to be an emotional mess, guys. Driver can act his ass off. Kylo Ren is a great character. GREAT. The sequences with him and Rey were special. He is going to be a great villain going forward. And even Hux was great this time around.

The space battles were on point, the CGI was super good, and though he died too quickly ... Snoke came off as a big time wielder of power. Dude had skills.

Only complaints: Dern was way too stiff and ... kids ... ugh. They just can't act. Luckily we saw very little of them.
 

I agree about Casino planet.  I was totally cool with it and liked Del Toro.  The more reviews I read or see of it, I understand the dislike, but that wasn't my first impression and I think a lot of people are letting reviews influence the fun of that side trip.

I actually wanted it more drawn out, much like Maz's palace.  I thought both were too quick and there could be some minimal world building involved with new sub-minor characters.   Plus, it didn't quite work out which was cool because that RARELY happens in SW.  

I thought this movie was fantastic.  

[twylyght]

I think a lot of the divide is tied to the reveal of Rey's parents.  Personally, I like the idea that people that are powerful with the force can come from anywhere.  That opens up a whole universe of possibilities rather than having to adopt some canon that the force is tied to lineage.  Those that wanted Rey's lineage to tie in with a greater arc wanted to perpetuate the model mythos of generational struggle.  A lot of people had tremendous emotional investment in this very concept that it outright demanded the backlash.  It may be a construct of the times, but I don't recall botnets being used to sway public opinion on what amounts to a pop-culture movie industry.  This pathological need to be simultaneously trail-blazers of opinion while being populous continues to grow without much challenge from the general public.

Either way, for me the movie has lots of great ideas, but the cohesion was not done very well.  Perhaps a director's edit will sit better.

[Moorgan]

I need to see it again. For sure. 10 minutes in and I was disappointed. The comedy between Hux and Poe about being on hold was awful to me. Forced and seemingly out of place. Like it was a joke for me and not in place with the setting. I absolutely hated almost everything about Hux. At the end is about the only time he doesn't overact and seem cartooinsihly like a buffoon. Just terrible. I also think Poe was trying too hard. How does he know Maz again?

The physics bothered me several times. I know it's Star Wars but arcing laser blasts and burning ships in space kept bringing me out of connectedness and thinking about it. Like it was slapping me in the face. Similar to watching TWD fire weapons that aren't firing. I also thought Rey was kind of stiff. But like I said, I need to see it again. I wasn't tied to any preconceived theory about who was who or anything like that. So my disappointment doesn't come from my favorite theory not being true. I was interested in all that but I'm not married to any theory one way or the other. I mean we didn't know jack about the Emperor but we just accepted that he was the man in charge for 20 years with no back story. Also Rey being a nobody (while still in doubt because Kylo could easily be lying) is solid. Removes the requirement that everything is tied to a Skywalker and makes the original Luke could be all of us relevant again. Rey could be any of us.

I especially like the idea that nature created Rey as a reaction to Kylo's growing power. That nature responded by balancing it out. I also really liked the perspective that Luke had. The disaffected and hiding from his own failures. I hated that Yoda looked like a $35 puppet. That really seemed like poor execution. Also, Yoda can lightning strike as a ghost? That means Luke should be able to manipulate the world as he haunts Kylo Ren in the next one. There will be haunting. For sure. I like Adam Driver and think he might be doing the best job in the whole series so far. Although I don't like that I'm missing so much of the story because I haven't read books. Apparently Laura Dern's character is a big deal and has a ton of back story with Leia in the book about Leia.

I need to see it again.

[Zaximus]

I think some people expect too much out of a Star Wars movies, they were never and probably never will be AMAZING movies with fantastic acting and story.  

[Jeremy Igo]

6.5 out of 10

 

 

[Cary Kollins]

I have mixed feelings after seeing it once. There were several literally jaw-dropping moments (YODA, half Snook, Luke vaporizing), but there were also so many inexplicable moments that just seem to make zero sense.

One critic said he had similar issues with the movie on first viewing, but after seeing it a second time those issues washed away and he enjoyed the hell out of it. So, I'm gonna give it some time and revisit and see if my stance changes.

But after one viewing, I have to say it felt more like a "Rogue One" type spin-off than a legitimate STAR WARS entry.

[Cary Kollins]

1 hour ago, Moorgan said:

I need to see it again. For sure. 10 minutes in and I was disappointed. The comedy between Hux and Poe about being on hold was awful to me. Forced and seemingly out of place. Like it was a joke for me and not in place with the setting. I absolutely hated almost everything about Hux. At the end is about the only time he doesn't overact and seem cartooinsihly like a buffoon. Just terrible. I also think Poe was trying too hard. How does he know Maz again?

 

 

Yeah the Poe "on hold" joke at the beginning didn't sit well at first, but when it was actually shown as a tactic to charge his missiles or whatever made it more tolerable.

Also a recurring theme was how AWFUL Poe is as a solider and how terrible the resistance is in general in terms of hierarchy and battles.

Poe just straight up went totally against his General's orders resulting in mass casualties at the very beginning of the movie. What the hell was that?

 

Way too much stuff just didn't make sense from a writing standpoint. Rey just sort of transports to the Big Bad ship where Kylo and Snook are? She just rolls up with no regard for her safety. Then after her scene with Kylo, she just appears on the Millennium Falcon. It felt like fanfic some reddit user would write.

I definitely need to see it again too.

[Moorgan]

33 minutes ago, Cary Kollins said:

 

Yeah the Poe "on hold" joke at the beginning didn't sit well at first, but when it was actually shown as a tactic to charge his missiles or whatever made it more tolerable.

Also a recurring theme was how AWFUL Poe is as a solider and how terrible the resistance is in general in terms of hierarchy and battles.

Poe just straight up went totally against his General's orders resulting in mass casualties at the very beginning of the movie. What the hell was that?

 

Way too much stuff just didn't make sense from a writing standpoint. Rey just sort of transports to the Big Bad ship where Kylo and Snook are? She just rolls up with no regard for her safety. Then after her scene with Kylo, she just appears on the Millennium Falcon. It felt like fanfic some reddit user would write.

I definitely need to see it again too.

Apparently, from the books, Poe's parents were a big deal and close with both Luke and Leia. Apparently his father created the "Pathfinders" unit, which is the unit Han led on the assault on Endor. He basically grew up his whole life knowing Leia and Luke. That explains some of the familiarity he had with her but...you'd have to read the books to know that. Which bothers me since I've been watching these movies since I was 5. I shouldn't need books to fill in what seems like huge holes. But c'est la vie. Shakes fist at clouds.

[PanthersBigD]

On 12/15/2017 at 12:38 AM, chknwing said:

what a pile of garbage.  I've never seen such lazy as writing in a star wars movie before. the action, cgi were great but for fugs sake the story is awful.  Litterally everything about Star Wars dies in this movie.  Rey?  lol who gives a fug about her now.  Shes not a skywalker.  not a solo.  Nope she got dumped by a couple of junkies.  ARE YOU fuging KIDDING ME?  REYS PARENTS ARE A COUPLE OF JUNKIES!  Why would I even want to see an episode 9 after this.  Snoke?  we hardly knew you.  You had no character arc, story and you been around since before the empire yet you die like a bitch.  Luke is a fuging coward, not man enough to face Kylo in person, and then just disappears.  Lets not forget about the slow OJ simpson ford bronco chase.  Really you are waiting for the cruise ship to run out of fuel?   I hate everything about this fuging movie.

Anakin Skywalker's mother was a slave and his father was, well, the Jedi Jesus apparently. Anyway, stupid origin stories are kind of a Star Wars thing. 

[Cary Kollins]

On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 12:38 AM, chknwing said:

what a pile of garbage.  I've never seen such lazy as writing in a star wars movie before. the action, cgi were great but for fugs sake the story is awful.  Litterally everything about Star Wars dies in this movie.  Rey?  lol who gives a fug about her now.  Shes not a skywalker.  not a solo.  Nope she got dumped by a couple of junkies.  ARE YOU fuging KIDDING ME?  REYS PARENTS ARE A COUPLE OF JUNKIES!  Why would I even want to see an episode 9 after this.  Snoke?  we hardly knew you.  You had no character arc, story and you been around since before the empire yet you die like a bitch.  Luke is a fuging coward, not man enough to face Kylo in person, and then just disappears.  Lets not forget about the slow OJ simpson ford bronco chase.  Really you are waiting for the cruise ship to run out of fuel?   I hate everything about this fuging movie.

 

I tend to agree with Film Crit Hulk's take on Rey's parents:

“fug Skywalkers.”

My friend said this in a conversation a long time ago. And he didn’t mean it about the characters themselves, nor what they meant to him. He meant it in the sense of the Star Wars series’ focus on lineage and the way some all powerful family who are the most powerful force users who basically controlled the fate of galaxy was… super gross. And he’s right, quite frankly. Because it’s everything I hate about the notion of ‘destiny” and “why I’m destined to be a hero!” bullshit. That psychology only leads you to the kind of place where you are the asshole kid screaming DO YOU KNOW WHO MY FATHER IS!?!?! at night clubs. And as this series has gone on and on, it has fed more and more into that thinking. So it would always this deep fear in me that in the return to the galaxy far far away, the new trilogy would get sucked back into that thematic toxicity.

But in TFA, we actually got a nice self-aware version of that with Kylo where it saw the juvenile villainy in such bloodline thinking (he is absolutely my favorite part of that film, btw). But I still always dreaded it with Rey parentage angle and fan theorying, etc: “Is she secretly Luke’s kid, etc!?!?” Is this just going to be more stories about Skywalkers and the children of all-powerful Jedi and Sith and how they’re the only ones that matter? And so in the moments of The Last Jedi that led up to the confrontation with Snoke, I’ll admit it… I fell for the feint. I thought there was going to be Lord Snoke “I am your father” moment. Why? Well, because that’s the what gets nicely set up in the scene before with Kylo’s feint of “I know who you parents are”… but nope, the lightsaber literally goes sideways and it’s another “OF COURSE!!!” reaction that rings out in my brain, because it all says it so clearly. Especially in their scene after: Kylo just wants to burn it all down with him atop the totem pole. And Rey, she’s just a kid whose parents sold her away for nothing… a meaningless child who therefore needs to share her place among those destined to be great, in order to be great… That kinda gross regal thinking sound familiar?

But Rey won’t do it. She would never. I actually ended up arguing with some folks about the “disappointing” nature of this reveal, but to me it was the only reveal that could actually mean anything in this story. Because she’s not “just” anything. Which is actually everything. For she and Rose and so many others are everything important about this movie. They are people who aren’t the sons of daughters of legends. People who have their own lives and wants, but they are people who have been discarded and stepped on and put under a system of unbearable weight. But from those leanings, there’s nothing that makes them any less capable of the force, any less a jedi, any less powerful…

And anything less than a Skywalker.

https://filmcrithulk.blog/

[cookinwithgas]

^ this. The democratization of the Force is actually pretty prevalent in the stories, but it's not part of the main story. It's great to see a lead who isn't just born into all of this, she is thrown into it. The contrast between Rey, who desperately wants to find her parents (who are apparently nothing special), and Ben/Kylo, who wants his parents (who are super special) dead, makes the story and specifically the Snoke/battle scene that much better.

All us long time fans have wanted to see more adult themes in Star Wars and now we get them, in fact I think that the Luke/Rey storyline makes the Finn/poe stuff look childish in comparison. Can't complain about it though, kids deserve Star Wars for them as well - and we grownups got Rogue One last year.

[fitty76]

Love the movie except for Rose.  Rose is probably the worst Star Wars character since Jar-Jar.  So disappointed she wasn't dead at the end.  

[cookinwithgas]

There are literally a billion Star Wars fans out there that will directly and personally identify with that character, and Asian characters are vital in giant movies these days as China only allows so many Western movies in every year. That's why Rogue One had the martial arts and weapons guys as Asians (other than that they were pretty badass looking in their roles). I just accept it as another price we pay to get to see more well made Star Wars movies. But yeah she didn't really bring a lot to the character, it wasn't particuarly well written, and her introductory scene with Finn was really awkward, at least on first viewing. Her character will be a staple on Disney Channel ads and PSAs.

[Scrumtrilescent]

I'm also so glad the ability to save/destroy the galaxy isn't dependent on a Jedi family tree that doesn't branch.  I see the first six episodes as the Skywalker saga; from here on out its focus is on another generation of heroes that aren't related, which makes more sense in a galactic point of view.