The Last Jedi *Spoilers*

[CarolinaCoolin]

6 hours ago, uncfan888 said:

They turned Darth Vader, one of the coolest villains ever, into a love stricken emo whiny teenager. 

Obi-Wan was the only saving grace of the prequels. 

The clone wars cartoon show shits on those movies 

You wanna talk about emo as if Kylo Ren isn’t a complete emo with daddy issues.

 

the tragedy of anakin/darth Vader is infinitely more better than whatever garbage rian Johnson wrote up.

 

lets recap. TFA was a beat for beat remake of ANH. TLJ was a mess and completely inconsistent with TFA and the characters got worse from that movie. 

 

All TLJ has going for it is visual effects and that it looks really well made. Other than that is completely inferior 

[CarolinaCoolin]

2 hours ago, cookinwithgas said:

meesa gonna disagree

Rose = jar jar. A completely annoying unnecessary character that doesn’t really add anything. 

[PanthersBigD]

12 minutes ago, CarolinaCoolin said:

Rose = jar jar. A completely annoying unnecessary character that doesn’t really add anything. 

Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man...

[Scrumtrilescent]

Yep.

[CarolinaCoolin]

2 hours ago, PanthersBigD said:

Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man...

Which is shared by many other people who saw the movie and were left disappointed and confused by her entire involvement in the plot/story

[cookinwithgas]

well here is her involvement in the story

 

Shes a character for children. She has to deal with loss and find meaning in a hopeless situation, and keeps her moral compass throughout. She's not super pretty, or super smart, doesn't have the Force, but knows right and wrong, has hope for the future, and ends up delivering the main point of the film; that it's not enough to be against something, you have to be for something. She puts her life in jeopardy to do so. 

Her character was not put in there for you or me. But it was a great idea to use a Star Wars movie to do more than sell toys to kids, and once I realized this my opinion the entire sub plot involving her and Finn got a lot less hostile. Ten year olds are not going to want to watch Luke and Rey discuss philosophy for 2 hours. Its a hell of a lot better than watching Jar Jar pick crap off his shoes or whatever.

[PanthersBigD]

MGTOW have aged out of the Star Wars target audience and none of them seem to know what to make of it. 

[CarolinaCoolin]

2 hours ago, cookinwithgas said:

well here is her involvement in the story

 

Shes a character for children. She has to deal with loss and find meaning in a hopeless situation, and keeps her moral compass throughout. She's not super pretty, or super smart, doesn't have the Force, but knows right and wrong, has hope for the future, and ends up delivering the main point of the film; that it's not enough to be against something, you have to be for something. She puts her life in jeopardy to do so. 

Her character was not put in there for you or me. But it was a great idea to use a Star Wars movie to do more than sell toys to kids, and once I realized this my opinion the entire sub plot involving her and Finn got a lot less hostile. Ten year olds are not going to want to watch Luke and Rey discuss philosophy for 2 hours. Its a hell of a lot better than watching Jar Jar pick crap off his shoes or whatever.

That’s a weak justification for a poorly written second act of the movie. 

“It’s just for the kids!! She has meaning to convey to teh kidzzzz”

 

i can tell you when I was a kid growing up with the prequels I wasn’t looking for any deeper meaning from the story and I certainly wasn’t taking away life lessons on how being fearful of the future can be a self fulling prophecy and lead to disaster until I was much older and could grasp more abstract concepts.

 

you are one of those English teachers who takes away crazy meaning from simple literature and tries to pass it off as something profound.

 

kids aren’t taking away how to deal with loss and hopeless situations. Kids especially 10 year olds are surface level movie watchers and are mainly watching for the action. And for TLJ was poo. The action set pieces are sorely lacking. 

[PanthersBigD]

17 hours ago, CarolinaCoolin said:

That’s a weak justification for a poorly written second act of the movie. 

“It’s just for the kids!! She has meaning to convey to teh kidzzzz”

 

i can tell you when I was a kid growing up with the prequels I wasn’t looking for any deeper meaning from the story and I certainly wasn’t taking away life lessons on how being fearful of the future can be a self fulling prophecy and lead to disaster until I was much older and could grasp more abstract concepts.

 

you are one of those English teachers who takes away crazy meaning from simple literature and tries to pass it off as something profound.

 

kids aren’t taking away how to deal with loss and hopeless situations. Kids especially 10 year olds are surface level movie watchers and are mainly watching for the action. And for TLJ was poo. The action set pieces are sorely lacking. 

Then maybe Star Wars just isn't for you anymore. There's always fanfic for guys like you...

[cookinwithgas]

I own just about every Expanded Universe book written so I've had a lot of further adventures written for the folks who grew up on this stuff, and they didn't need to cater to kids. Movies that cost this much to make, and that are expected to generate profit as well as continue promoting to new fans, are going to have this stuff built in. Loved Rogue One but I know as well as anyone Donnie Chen was put in there for the Chinese market for example. If this is the price to pay to see new Star Wars movies I really don't understand the problem - we endured Ewoks to see what happened to our characters in 1983, this is nothing.

[CarolinaCoolin]

2 hours ago, PanthersBigD said:

Then maybe Star Wars just isn't for you anymore. There's always fanfic for guys like you...

Star Wars should be for everyone. It’s isnt mutually exclusive.

you don’t have to cater towards one or the other. 

 

Theres a balance where you can acknowledge the fandom and not poo on previous content while building the future for new fans. 

The problem is they didn’t do that here. They poo on old fans, ruined old

characters and replaced the with poorly written ones

[CarolinaCoolin]

2 hours ago, cookinwithgas said:

I own just about every Expanded Universe book written so I've had a lot of further adventures written for the folks who grew up on this stuff, and they didn't need to cater to kids. Movies that cost this much to make, and that are expected to generate profit as well as continue promoting to new fans, are going to have this stuff built in. Loved Rogue One but I know as well as anyone Donnie Chen was put in there for the Chinese market for example. If this is the price to pay to see new Star Wars movies I really don't understand the problem - we endured Ewoks to see what happened to our characters in 1983, this is nothing.

At least Donnie yens character added something and actually contributed to the story. The same can’t be said for rose as she just got in the way in almost every instance and added nothing. 

[PanthersBigD]

1 hour ago, CarolinaCoolin said:

Star Wars should be for everyone. It’s isnt mutually exclusive.

you don’t have to cater towards one or the other. 

 

Theres a balance where you can acknowledge the fandom and not poo on previous content while building the future for new fans. 

The problem is they didn’t do that here. They poo on old fans, ruined old

characters and replaced the with poorly written ones

Every one doesn't love every thing. I was fine with the direction the characters took. I don't get the animosity some people have. There are things I would have liked to have happened differently, but it doesn't ruin the story for me. And what about the original characters was so original? What makes the new characters poorly written? The main characters in Star Wars were archetypes. It was a space western that borrowed from tons of great, earlier films. 

Watching Star Wars as a kid is like an adult doing heroine for the first time. You're never going to have that same feeling you did the first time, but there's a good chance you'll spend way too much of your time trying. You can chase the dragon, but you're never going to catch it. 

Just out of curiosity, what would you have had happen differently, specifically? I'm guessing you'd keep Han alive, even though Harrison Ford stipulated killing him off. So do you recast him? Now he's alive, now what? Just him and Chewie cruising around the galaxy like a couple of crusty old pirates? 

What about Luke? 

[CarolinaCoolin]

11 minutes ago, PanthersBigD said:

Every one doesn't love every thing. I was fine with the direction the characters took. I don't get the animosity some people have. There are things I would have liked to have happened differently, but it doesn't ruin the story for me. And what about the original characters was so original? What makes the new characters poorly written? The main characters in Star Wars were archetypes. It was a space western that borrowed from tons of great, earlier films. 

Watching Star Wars as a kid is like an adult doing heroine for the first time. You're never going to have that same feeling you did the first time, but there's a good chance you'll spend way too much of your time trying. You can chase the dragon, but you're never going to catch it. 

Just out of curiosity, what would you have had happen differently, specifically? I'm guessing you'd keep Han alive, even though Harrison Ford stipulated killing him off. So do you recast him? Now he's alive, now what? Just him and Chewie cruising around the galaxy like a couple of crusty old pirates? 

What about Luke? 

You’re right, everyone doesn’t love everything. In TLJ’s case 50% of the audience didn’t like it. Half of all people didn’t like it and it bombed so bad in China they pulled it after three weeks. 

You personally don’t get why someone people don’t like the movie. Don’t use that as justification for telling people that Star Wars isn’t for them any more because you personally can’t understand why they noticed flaws and you are willing to over look them. 

 

Rey is a Mary Sue. That’s a text book mistake on how not to write a character. Kylo is a mental child with anger issues. Finn seems all over the place like he can never actually make up his mind about something and when he finally does he gets stopped Jar Jar.. I mean rose. 

 

Poe is the only character from the new movies who is actually worth a damn and they poo on him through out the whole movie. 

 

I would cut canto bight completely. It served no purpose in the actual story and was only used as a plot device for rian Johnson. The entire second act of a movie shouldn’t be a plot device. I would rewrite Luke’s character to make him more consistent with the Luke from the OT. I would make Rey’s parents actually matter to the story but also have her struggle with training for some of the film as it will show she isn’t a Mary Sue character and everything doesn’t come easy to her. I would explore snokes back story with him and kylo in scenes with scenes just themselves. Showing how Menancing and strong of a force user he is torturing kylo building up his fear and anger in the dark side but I’d keep that force connection with him and Rey as that played well in the movie. Id have snoke and kylo vs Luke and Rey. While snoke and Luke duel it out kylo and Rey realize they have more in common than differences and the conflict builds in kylo. 

 

Snoke would kill luke showing him as the big bad of the new trilogy. Kylo seeing his uncle and former master cut down would turn sides and fight with Rey. They would escape and be on a team, light and dark to take down snoke in the 9th movie. 

 

I also would give ackbar the role of that purple haired lady. Ackbar actually is a previous character so giving him something heroic would be better served than giving him a throw away death and creating a new character simply for being heroic. 

Cut the Mary poppins scene. 

Cut the Luke milking the sea monster scene

there was a lot that could have been handled better that simply wasn’t due to poor writing and taking the franchise in a bad direction.