PFF: Daryl Williams second-best tackle in the league

[The Natural]

Gettleman and Hurney both suck..... This isn't some mutually exclusive thing where one has to be great and the other terrible.

[grimesgoat]

12 hours ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

1.yeah i'm 100% positive the team is better in 2014 with smith on the team instead of cotchery and jason avant or philly brown

2. You cannot say he's in charge of building a complete team and watch as he dumps countless resources into two positions while other positions can't filed adequate starters. Then spend a entire draft drafting defense. That's not building a compete team. 

3.you're listing the season after the nate chandler and bell disaster, after 2015 we saw remmers get abused each game and become a automatic drive killer with holding or false start penalties, and watch him overpay a subpar tackle in kalil after many for years stated we didn't have the spending money to make a move at OT, so when we do this is the guy you sign to a big contract??? i've given credit for the Williams pick

4. right best front 7, i don't need the best backups for the front 7 as well, and how about that bottom ranked pass defense from last year? matter of fact the pass defense has consistently been a problem.

5. if he's getting benched in his second season it's not looking good period, but i'm not even addressing the pick as bad because of the player, it's the fact we drafted 3 cb's in a row....you're throwing rookies in the flame agaisnt guys like brees, ryan, juio, and evans, without any vet to mentor them, the whole situation was a mess.

 

ultimately the man couldn't get out of his own way, he made life harder for himself as a gm instead of learning from his mistakes. In reality if we win the superbowl in 2015 i doubt anyone is putting a magnifying glass to his decisions for quite some time, but we didn't and the response made with the moves that off-season were terrible  

1. We may have been better with Smith, who knows.  We may have scored more points or our locker room may have devolved into a disaster.  But the offense wasn't the problem in 2014.  It was very middle-of-the-road.  The defense was the problem.  Losing Hardy after game 1 (plus his 13.1 cap hit) was the issue in 2014.  In 6 of our losses/ties in midseason, we gave up 37, 38, 37, 38, 45, and 31 points.  That's on the defense, not on losing Smith.

2. I don't get this one.  Can you be more specific?  Is this about drafting Shaq?  Was Gman supposed to know Norman would not sign the tag 12 months in advance and draft a corner instead?  Perhaps he learned his lesson and drafted Butler because he was worried Short would do the same thing Norman did.  Who knows, but building a team through the draft and filling holes where they occur is what GMs do.

3. 2016 Remmers was not as good as 2015 Remmers, I agree.  Perhaps much of that had to do with moving from the right side to the left after Oher went out early in the season.  If would have been great if Gman could have anticipated Oher's concussion and had a great LT sitting on the bench waiting to get in, but that's a luxury no team really has in the NFL.

4. You seem to contradict yourself here.  In 3. above, you complain we do not have a decent backup for Oher, but in 4. you complain our backups are too good on defense.  Again, I think you are expecting Gman to somehow know where the injuries will occur and plan in advance for them.  If there are GMs out there that know when these injuries are going to happen, then by all means, we need to snag one of these.  That would be a huge benefit.

5. The starters in 2015 were Bradberry and Benewikere (not Worley).  2015 Bene was fantastic, but Worley became a starter because 2016 Bene sucked.  We missed out on CB free agency (other than Boykin) because we had money tied up in Norman's tag.  Since Norman chose to screw us over by douching around, we were stuck with filling his spot as best we could through the draft.  Bradberry looks like a great pick.  We're probably making this pick even with Norman on the team.  Worley may have been for true need, but as a 2nd year guy playing corner, he's doing ok.  I think he'll be a solid player for us for many years, but probably will not be an all pro.  That's generally the expectation for 3rd rounders.

[Cpt slay a ho]

5 hours ago, grimesgoat said:

1. We may have been better with Smith, who knows.  We may have scored more points or our locker room may have devolved into a disaster.  But the offense wasn't the problem in 2014.  It was very middle-of-the-road.  The defense was the problem.  Losing Hardy after game 1 (plus his 13.1 cap hit) was the issue in 2014.  In 6 of our losses/ties in midseason, we gave up 37, 38, 37, 38, 45, and 31 points.  That's on the defense, not on losing Smith.

2. I don't get this one.  Can you be more specific?  Is this about drafting Shaq?  Was Gman supposed to know Norman would not sign the tag 12 months in advance and draft a corner instead?  Perhaps he learned his lesson and drafted Butler because he was worried Short would do the same thing Norman did.  Who knows, but building a team through the draft and filling holes where they occur is what GMs do.

3. 2016 Remmers was not as good as 2015 Remmers, I agree.  Perhaps much of that had to do with moving from the right side to the left after Oher went out early in the season.  If would have been great if Gman could have anticipated Oher's concussion and had a great LT sitting on the bench waiting to get in, but that's a luxury no team really has in the NFL.

4. You seem to contradict yourself here.  In 3. above, you complain we do not have a decent backup for Oher, but in 4. you complain our backups are too good on defense.  Again, I think you are expecting Gman to somehow know where the injuries will occur and plan in advance for them.  If there are GMs out there that know when these injuries are going to happen, then by all means, we need to snag one of these.  That would be a huge benefit.

5. The starters in 2015 were Bradberry and Benewikere (not Worley).  2015 Bene was fantastic, but Worley became a starter because 2016 Bene sucked.  We missed out on CB free agency (other than Boykin) because we had money tied up in Norman's tag.  Since Norman chose to screw us over by douching around, we were stuck with filling his spot as best we could through the draft.  Bradberry looks like a great pick.  We're probably making this pick even with Norman on the team.  Worley may have been for true need, but as a 2nd year guy playing corner, he's doing ok.  I think he'll be a solid player for us for many years, but probably will not be an all pro.  That's generally the expectation for 3rd rounders.

1. this is looking like bias in your personal opinion of smith, locker room a disaster? if there hadn't been a locker room issue in 10 + plus seasons why would there be one in his 13th? it's more about how the situation was handled for a franchise player and cornerstone of the franchise. Again the secondary was hot trash in 2014, has been since 2013 until currently so that could be a reason we were giving up 30+ games on the regular.

2.this is about drafting guys who are going to sit or play limited snaps for multiple seasons, shaq before this year hadn't seen significant playing time until a injury occurred. Butler is stuck behind an all pro dt, two positions the team is stacked at, could have invested in other positions of need.

3. no ones faulting him for oher's concussion, or not having a backup. faulting him for not putting a higher priority on the tackle position in general. oher was a stop gap, being content with the status quota is lot of reasons we sucked in 2016. 

4.again never complained about not having a backup for oher, but the overall priority of the tackle position. oher was a stop gap regardless of the concussion expecting him to play at a high level for multiple seasons would have been short sighted.  I watched season after season as people state we either didn't have the cap to get a tackle or there isn't a tackle worth drafting, that's ridiculous, then as soon as we do we sign a very subpar guy in kalil, unacceptable.

5. is probably if i had the guess, the start of the end of dg, this situation was handled so damn poorly it's not funny. since the off-season or before you've been in contract negotiations with norman and agent, if you feel like a deal cannot be made you rescind the tag before free agency and find a adequate replacement for the upcoming season. judging by the cb market it was probably best to do like he's done before, make norman play under the tag like he was going to do with hardy. instead he rescind the tag after free agency is damn near dead and drafts 3 cb's in a row, the whole scenario looked like is was poorly thought out and not well plan, that was as bad a backup plan i can think of. you can call norman what you want, but i can not fault a guy for using basic negotiating tactics that have been use by many other previously.

[SmokinwithWilly]

19 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

 

5. is probably if i had the guess, the start of the end of dg, this situation was handled so damn poorly it's not funny. since the off-season or before you've been in contract negotiations with norman and agent, if you feel like a deal cannot be made you rescind the tag before free agency and find a adequate replacement for the upcoming season. judging by the cb market it was probably best to do like he's done before, make norman play under the tag like he was going to do with hardy. instead he rescind the tag after free agency is damn near dead and drafts 3 cb's in a row, the whole scenario looked like is was poorly thought out and not well plan, that was as bad a backup plan i can think of. you can call norman what you want, but i can not fault a guy for using basic negotiating tactics that have been use by many other previously.

Norman hired a guy with zero experience in negotiating a big NFL deal. It's the biggest deal of your life and you hire someone with zero experience. That's just stupid. This fact is further emphasized by Norman firing him as his primary agent right after the tag was yanked. It's probably 50/50 with fault, but my personal feeling is when you're dealing with someone who doesn't know what the hell they're doing, sometimes it's just better to cut ties completely and walk away. I understand the talent level of Norman, but if he had picked a different agent, I'm pretty sure Bradberry would be wearing a different number for the Panthers. 

[pantherphan96]

On 12/14/2017 at 12:48 PM, thomas96 said:

I wanted to keep Mitchell, and in hindsight the deal he got from Pittsburgh was very solid and we could've matched it. We've sorely missed that type of attitude on our D for years now.

Mitchell got overpaid by Pitt and currently is playing like poo and headhunting like he always has. Dude owes his huge contract to our dominant DL in 2013.

[grimesgoat]

1 hour ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

1. this is looking like bias in your personal opinion of smith, locker room a disaster? if there hadn't been a locker room issue in 10 + plus seasons why would there be one in his 13th? it's more about how the situation was handled for a franchise player and cornerstone of the franchise. Again the secondary was hot trash in 2014, has been since 2013 until currently so that could be a reason we were giving up 30+ games on the regular.

2.this is about drafting guys who are going to sit or play limited snaps for multiple seasons, shaq before this year hadn't seen significant playing time until a injury occurred. Butler is stuck behind an all pro dt, two positions the team is stacked at, could have invested in other positions of need.

3. no ones faulting him for oher's concussion, or not having a backup. faulting him for not putting a higher priority on the tackle position in general. oher was a stop gap, being content with the status quota is lot of reasons we sucked in 2016. 

4.again never complained about not having a backup for oher, but the overall priority of the tackle position. oher was a stop gap regardless of the concussion expecting him to play at a high level for multiple seasons would have been short sighted.  I watched season after season as people state we either didn't have the cap to get a tackle or there isn't a tackle worth drafting, that's ridiculous, then as soon as we do we sign a very subpar guy in kalil, unacceptable.

 

1. just repeating the rumors about Smith being a problem in the locker room.  Full disclosure - I've never been in the locker room nor witnessed any antics by Smith.  But we do know he's hit teammates in the past.  We've also heard interviews where he comes off as a douche.  Egocentric guys who hit their teammates are generally not a good mix in a locker room full of young guys.  Once he showed some deterioration, he was no longer worth the hassle.  I guess my love for Smith wasn't as strong as many on here.  I saw it as a good business decision.

2. Regarding drafting Shaq, I believe there were two reasons for this - neither of which were so he could play limited snaps for multiple seasons.  Shaq was supposed to be McDermott's "big buffalo", allowing us to play 3 LBs and 2 CBs.  Unfortunately, I believe that scheme is a bust.  Its not necessarily because of Shaq.  I think the whole thing was just a McDermott pipe dream.  Regardless, Shaq should be playing in TDs spot by now.  I think TD has defied the odds by continuing to play at a high level and is too popular to bench.  If I were to make a guess, I'm betting Richardson cut the legs out from under Gettleman/Rivera to make sure TD starts until he's ready to call it quits.

3. Finally we'll have to agree to disagree regarding Oher.  The guy is a former first round pick that was only 29 and coming into his own when he got the concussion.  He just signed a pretty nice extension so obviously the idea was that he would be around for several years while we groomed someone.  We didn't know he was done until this spring so we signed Kalil.  I think we were a bit desperate but it was a strange choice and I wonder if Richardson had a hand in it.

Frankly, the whole off-season seemed very Un-Gettleman.  I wonder if Richardson got too involved (bring back Peppers, Munnerlyn, signing Kalil, wanting extensions for Olsen and TD, drafting CMC) and maybe Gman just had enough and blew a gasket resulting in him getting fired.  The timing was really strange?  I think its safe to say Gman did not want to re-negotiate anything with Olsen and TD, not his style, and that probably cost him his job.

Still, if we end up 11-5 and win a game or two in the playoffs, it would be hard to argue he didn't set us up pretty well.  Not many teams have a 5 game improvement in one year.

[KendrickPanther]

Lets not act like Gettleman was an oline genius. Byron Bell, Mike Remmers, Frenchy Foucalt, and Nate Chandler have started games for us. Mike is a jag and he looks like an all pro on that list. Bell looks like a pro bowler on that list... 

Michael Oher's contract extension was a disaster. Matt Kalil is better than fans want to admit, but not worth his contract. I guess we can give him credit for Turner, Norwell, and Williams. 

But let's not forget Edmund Kugbilla. 

[TheSpecialJuan]

4 hours ago, KendrickPanther said:

Lets not act like Gettleman was an oline genius. Byron Bell, Mike Remmers, Frenchy Foucalt, and Nate Chandler have started games for us. Mike is a jag and he looks like an all pro on that list. Bell looks like a pro bowler on that list... 

Michael Oher's contract extension was a disaster. Matt Kalil is better than fans want to admit, but not worth his contract. I guess we can give him credit for Turner, Norwell, and Williams. 

But let's not forget Edmund Kugbilla. 

yee