The Offensive Line

[Wither]

Really its dif then what it sounds like. Same with Turf toe. A Groin tear happens because you are not very flexible. Its a muscle that runs in your inner thigh. With two surgeries im sure there is scar tissue and his movement is not 100%. Groin tears take most people two years to get over.

I know, I'm just being an idiot, as usual.

I wonder the severity of both injuries? Obviously, the less scar tissue or the smaller the injury the less restricting it is.

[Snake]

I know, I'm just being an idiot, as usual.

I wonder the severity of both injuries? Obviously, the less scar tissue or the smaller the injury the less restricting it is.

IDK he was good till he hurt it with the Steelers. Russ Grim didnt get much out of him with the Cards. Then he came to us and hurt it again. Now he sucks LOL

[bleys]

so they are putting 8 or 9 in the box... We have been bashing Davidson over and over for giving up on the run and throwing the ball on most downs (minus the Washington game)...

With that said, and remembered when asking this question, why are we acting like 8 or 9 in the box is the issue when throwing so much and yet the pass protection is horrible?

Please help me understand your points here... because both are not reasonable. You throw majority of the game, the other team adjusts. So saying 8 or 9 in the box doesn't explain the bad pass protection.

Gman is right has a legit point when compared to all the rest, because either Davidson has over complicated the blocking\protection schemes or we are playing better defenses... I say this mostly because all the other reasons don't add up... Unless I'm missing something.

THe WRs being open is irrelevant when you only have 4 seconds to get off the ball... The OC could be to blame for not adapting to our horrible OLine play, but that doesn't explain why our OLine cannot block..

Jake stepping up into the pocket is irrelevant when there is no pocket or it collapses after 4 or 5 seconds... but, this does explain the fumbles/interceptions/lack of completions, which so many are willing to ignore.

Moose doesn't go deep on every play, again, irrelevant to the entire game.

We don't do 4 or 5 reverses, and if we did, it's only 4 or 5 reverses, there are another 40 plays (at least... which there are many more)

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so again, I'm curious if anyone has any observations which hold up to our horrible pass protection. The run game, explainable to an extent. But to say they are stacking 8 or 9 in the box when (minus the Washington game) we are mostly passing doesn't add up as a legit reason. Even if it did, why is the pass protection still so horrible?

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In the words of Steve Smith's recent Bojangles commercial, "I'm just askin"....

[Snake]

so they are putting 8 or 9 in the box... We have been bashing Davidson over and over for giving up on the run and throwing the ball on most downs (minus the Washington game)...

With that said, and remembered when asking this question, why are we acting like 8 or 9 in the box is the issue when throwing so much and yet the pass protection is horrible?

Please help me understand your points here... because both are not reasonable. You throw majority of the game, the other team adjusts. So saying 8 or 9 in the box doesn't explain the bad pass protection.

Gman is right has a legit point when compared to all the rest, because either Davidson has over complicated the blocking\protection schemes or we are playing better defenses... I say this mostly because all the other reasons don't add up... Unless I'm missing something.

THe WRs being open is irrelevant when you only have 4 seconds to get off the ball... The OC could be to blame for not adapting to our horrible OLine play, but that doesn't explain why our OLine cannot block..

Jake stepping up into the pocket is irrelevant when there is no pocket or it collapses after 4 or 5 seconds... but, this does explain the fumbles/interceptions/lack of completions, which so many are willing to ignore.

Moose doesn't go deep on every play, again, irrelevant to the entire game.

We don't do 4 or 5 reverses, and if we did, it's only 4 or 5 reverses, there are another 40 plays (at least... which there are many more)

------------

so again, I'm curious if anyone has any observations which hold up to our horrible pass protection. The run game, explainable to an extent. But to say they are stacking 8 or 9 in the box when (minus the Washington game) we are mostly passing doesn't add up as a legit reason. Even if it did, why is the pass protection still so horrible?

----------

In the words of Steve Smith's recent Bojangles commercial, "I'm just askin"....

To answer all your questions with one statement. It is what it is.......... Naw just kidding but its just a combo of things. Little things that make a big problem. You have the fact that Our WRs cant get open. That was obvouse on the 2 min Drill cause Delhomme had to throw to the dump off man. Using Rasario has helped this problem and prob should be done more. Then you have the fact that Delhomme dose not step up. Yes he dose have somewhere to step up most of the time. Then there is the Prob with the run game. 8\9 in the box makes it hard to run the ball but we also dont change formations that much so that helps the D out too. Want see much 8 in the box if you go single back 4 wide. Or I hope not. All these things play into why our Offense sucks.

[pantherj]

so they are putting 8 or 9 in the box... We have been bashing Davidson over and over for giving up on the run and throwing the ball on most downs (minus the Washington game)...

With that said, and remembered when asking this question, why are we acting like 8 or 9 in the box is the issue when throwing so much and yet the pass protection is horrible?

Please help me understand your points here... because both are not reasonable. You throw majority of the game, the other team adjusts. So saying 8 or 9 in the box doesn't explain the bad pass protection.

Gman is right has a legit point when compared to all the rest, because either Davidson has over complicated the blocking\protection schemes or we are playing better defenses... I say this mostly because all the other reasons don't add up... Unless I'm missing something.

THe WRs being open is irrelevant when you only have 4 seconds to get off the ball... The OC could be to blame for not adapting to our horrible OLine play, but that doesn't explain why our OLine cannot block..

Jake stepping up into the pocket is irrelevant when there is no pocket or it collapses after 4 or 5 seconds... but, this does explain the fumbles/interceptions/lack of completions, which so many are willing to ignore.

Moose doesn't go deep on every play, again, irrelevant to the entire game.

We don't do 4 or 5 reverses, and if we did, it's only 4 or 5 reverses, there are another 40 plays (at least... which there are many more)

------------

so again, I'm curious if anyone has any observations which hold up to our horrible pass protection. The run game, explainable to an extent. But to say they are stacking 8 or 9 in the box when (minus the Washington game) we are mostly passing doesn't add up as a legit reason. Even if it did, why is the pass protection still so horrible?

----------

In the words of Steve Smith's recent Bojangles commercial, "I'm just askin"....

In general, when you have a massive o-line, they are good at run blocking, and lacking in pass protection. This has to do with their natural lack of speed, quickness, footwork... ect. Their advantage is the increased power that comes with their massive weight and additional muscle mass. Our offense requires a lot of deep shots down field when we do pass. Teams are loading up on the run, and hoping to force a 3rd and long. Our jumbo linemen will never be good in pass protection. The burden falls on Jake to have excellent pocket awareness, and move or get rid of the ball to aviod sacks and fumbles.

[Mr. Scot]

I think the root of a lot of it goes to Vincent not beingt he same guy he was last year.

Kalil was regularly getting to the second level last season at least in part because Vincent was doing a better job inside. Getting second level blocks was whet sprung a load of those long runs.

At this point, I'm ready to give Robinson a try, but obviously the coaching staff doesn't think he's ready.

(and he legitimately may not be)

[DaveThePanther2008]

I think the root of a lot of it goes to Vincent not beingt he same guy he was last year.

Kalil was regularly getting to the second level last season at least in part because Vincent was doing a better job inside. Getting second level blocks was whet sprung a load of those long runs.

At this point, I'm ready to give Robinson a try, but obviously the coaching staff doesn't think he's ready.

(and he legitimately may not be)

If Vincent isn't healthy what harm could it do. Is Robinson that far below even an unhealthy Vincent that he couldn't do the job? If so, we are in worse trouble than we believe.

I do still have hope that as the season progress that we improve like last season.

Go Panthers

[R0CKnR0LLA]

Robinson hasn't gotten a game jersey yet. Bernadeau is ahead of him on the depth chart and if we make a change I would think he'd be the one to get the nod.

[CLTPanther]

4 or 5 seconds in the pocket should be plenty unless they are throwing way down field. You only have about 3 or so seconds to get rid of the ball with how fast the DE's are these days.

[SCP]

So most of us notice the huge drop off with our offensive line from last year to this year..

We came in last year with a huge unknown.. A rookie RT, an unproven vet (Vincent), Wharton moved to LG, and Gross as a huge unknown and not many were convinced how successful he would be. Add the fact that he didn't add any pounds and some were looking for a reason to jump on this man. Our center was an interesting question mark because we mostly saw when he did play RG the year before, it didn't look good...

What happened?

If there was a need for our offense to step up and play well together, it was last year when our defense started trailing off... Our run game picked up and blew up opposing defenses. Our pass protection was above average. I don't know about anyone else, but it took me over half the season to watch a game without a feeling of "who is going to show up today".. Some of that had to do with the games we should have won, but appeared to try to give away.

Coming into this year...

We are expecting Davidson to expand the offensive game plan and play calling.. The biggest thing in that regard would be what the offensive line was expected to do. For the first time in YEARS AND YEARS, we have the same guys starting from the year before. This is supposed to be a huge advantage. Look at teams who have OLines that have been together for years and years, the chemistry is strong and they are mightily efficient...

For us? The opposite...

There is absolutely no pass protection... There is no pocket to step up into most of the time. If we get 4 or 5 seconds for Jake, we are doing good. Gross looked horrible yesterday and Vincent has been getting his share of criticism... There is absolutely no push in the run game and our RB's have no holes to run into... Stewarts touchdown was the first big hole I saw all game, and I'll throw in Jake's 1st down run but thank the play call/misdirection play more than the OLine...

So... what gives?

I'd love for people who know football to speak up on this.. Did Davidson over complicate blocking assignments? Did he implement more to the plays that is taking time for the OLine to catch up in awareness? This seems to me like the only option with such a drop off.. Point me in the right direction, there has to be some sort of explanation (or theory, at best)....

IMO, their splits are very small for an NFL o-line this year. This comes from lack of confidence in yourself or lack of confidence in the play call and scheme. Go back and look at the Skins game. Our splits were measured in inches when they should be measured in feet. It's hard to run up the gut when you are craming everything into a small box. I will be looking at this again against the Bucs. If you don't see 2-3 foot splits, we will continue to have problems.

[Fireball77]

Interesting, South Cak. How much does opposing personnel play into that?

Great thread BTW.

[Mr. Scot]

IMO, their splits are very small for an NFL o-line this year. This comes from lack of confidence in yourself or lack of confidence in the play call and scheme. Go back and look at the Skins game. Our splits were measured in inches when they should be measured in feet. It's hard to run up the gut when you are craming everything into a small box. I will be looking at this again against the Bucs. If you don't see 2-3 foot splits, we will continue to have problems.

I'll have to take a look at that too. Can't see much logic in us playing smallball.

Robinson hasn't gotten a game jersey yet. Bernadeau is ahead of him on the depth chart and if we make a change I would think he'd be the one to get the nod.

There's logic to it, but also consider that Bernadeau is a "utility" guy (backup at multiple spots) and is arguably more valuable playing that role than as a full time starter. Robinson could not play that part.

[SCP]

Interesting, South Cak. How much does opposing personnel play into that?

Great thread BTW.

I know when I played guard in college and I was going against a beast at the 3 spot, I would crowd into my center to take away his inside move. If I was a better player in college and had more confidence in my game, I could have stayed 2-3 feet off my center's right foot and handled that 3 technique myself. But I was mediocre and would subconsciously slide in. I'll bet if you watch that LSU v. Florida game, you'd notice LSU's o-line closer together than Florida's.

[Snake]

I think the root of a lot of it goes to Vincent not beingt he same guy he was last year.

Kalil was regularly getting to the second level last season at least in part because Vincent was doing a better job inside. Getting second level blocks was whet sprung a load of those long runs.

At this point, I'm ready to give Robinson a try, but obviously the coaching staff doesn't think he's ready.

(and he legitimately may not be)

When he went down last year with the same injury it was gonna be bad for us then and now. Groin injuries tend to heal slow. At this point there would have been a starting spot for Hangman if we could have kept him.