Who's "Elite" on this team honestly

[CRA]

1 hour ago, thefuzz said:

Kalil - When healthy

Olsen - When healthy 

Luke - When healthy

KK

Star

Turner

 

 

Cam - Streaky player, some games "elite" others not so much....but he's certainly in the top 10 IMO.  Norwell is in and out of this group as well.

 

 

Those up top are certainly in the top 5 at their positions when healthy, Cam bounces in and out of the top 5 at his position, and Davis would usually be up there...and I could make the case for him now, but his best days are far behind him.

 

 

I think Kalil is overrated at this point in his career.  When healthy, he isn't the old All Pro Kalil.   

[Mikey815]

Keuchly and Olsen is pretty good

[AggieLean]

46 minutes ago, Peppers90 NC said:

careful now, you may get an emotional tirade from some of our most sensitive fans suggesting otherwiese

You seem to be sensitive to the fact that Cam has a lot of fans on this board.

[t96]

Elite to me is just top tier, could be top 5 could be just top 2, could be top 7... depends on the position. Luke is the only elite player on our team right now unfortunately. Cam was elite in 2015 but not any other year. Greg may still be elite as he has been the past 3 years so if we can get him back healthy that's a huge addition. Ryan Kalil too. Hopefully KK can step it up as he should be elite, same with Turner.

Mario is REALLY close to elite but not quite that top tier in my mind yet. Hoping he can still get there but think he's hit his ceiling, which is still damn good.

[AggieLean]

But to answer the question, the elite players on this team IMO are Cam & Luke. Olsen as well

[thefuzz]

Just now, thomas96 said:

Elite to me is just top tier, could be top 5 could be just top 2, could be top 7... depends on the position. Luke is the only elite player on our team right now unfortunately. Cam was elite in 2015 but not any other year. Greg may still be elite as he has been the past 3 years so if we can get him back healthy that's a huge addition. Ryan Kalil too. Hopefully KK can step it up as he should be elite, same with Turner.

Mario is REALLY close to elite but not quite that top tier in my mind yet. Hoping he can still get there but think he's hit his ceiling, which is still damn good.

Here's how I would think about elite...and I'm with you, it's different for different positions.

"How many other players at this exact same position would I take over our guys, when healthy?"

There aren't many G's better than Turner and Norwell...I'm not ready to say they are "elite", but I do think that the argument could be made right now that there aren't many playing much better.

Same with KK and Star....but I don't really consider either of them "elite" either, but that's why I asked the question on the 1st page.  Donald is elite, but KK and Star are both really really good players, and both are top 5 for their respective positions, at the moment.

[Fox007]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Here's how I would think about elite...and I'm with you, it's different for different positions.

"How many other players at this exact same position would I take over our guys, when healthy?"

There aren't many G's better than Turner and Norwell...I'm not ready to say they are "elite", but I do think that the argument could be made right now that there aren't many playing much better.

Same with KK and Star....but I don't really consider either of them "elite" either, but that's why I asked the question on the 1st page.  Donald is elite, but KK and Star are both really really good players, and both are top 5 for their respective positions, at the moment.

Yea some LBs are just rush LBs too and may be elite pass rushers but to call them elite LBs overall is false. So there does need to be a breakdown because there are a few rush LBs as the example that can rush the passer but are invisible on run plays and can just be ran at/over and they sure as hell can't cover TEs. Luke can do it all.

[grimesgoat]

23 minutes ago, CarolinaSamurai said:

Elite to me in one year is a player who is playing in that year in the top 5 of his position. You can be elite for a year and not be good other years. The opposite is also true. My question is this year what players on the panthers team would you say is playing at that elite level. It would only be Luke right now. That's a problem winning teams have at least one player that play at an elite level in different positions. we only have one

From a numbers standpoint, Kuechly is tied for 14th in tackles with Ryan Shazier.  As a matter of fact, they both have 89 tackles, 3 interceptions, and no sacks.  Shazier has 11 pds (to Luke's 5) but Luke has a TD.

I'm kind of wondering if any Panther is elite this year.

[RumHam]

I've never seen Luke miss so many tackles than he has this year. Wouldn't call him elite either.

[t96]

8 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

From a numbers standpoint, Kuechly is tied for 14th in tackles with Ryan Shazier.  As a matter of fact, they both have 89 tackles, 3 interceptions, and no sacks.  Shazier has 11 pds (to Luke's 5) but Luke has a TD.

I'm kind of wondering if any Panther is elite this year.

stats aren't indicative of performance. ton of things going on that you can't measure with numbers

[RumHam]

Really, it's Gano. The bounceback year no one even mentions.

[thefuzz]

10 minutes ago, Fox007 said:

Yea some LBs are just rush LBs too and may be elite pass rushers but to call them elite LBs overall is false. So there does need to be a breakdown because there are a few rush LBs as the example that can rush the passer but are invisible on run plays and can just be ran at/over and they sure as hell can't cover TEs. Luke can do it all.

Yup.  That's why I'm not a big fan of the word these days.

The better way to define elite to me would be top few players at each position over the past 25 years.  We have had scant few, but that's most teams.

But that's no fun, as the majority of those players are retired now.

[grimesgoat]

8 minutes ago, thomas96 said:

stats aren't indicative of performance. ton of things going on that you can't measure with numbers

Agree.  Very much a subjective exercise.

I just get tired of the whole "we're wasting the talent of 2 once-in-a-generation players" argument.  Cam and Luke are great - but so are a bunch of their peers.

[t96]

7 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

Agree.  Very much a subjective exercise.

I just get tired of the whole "we're wasting the talent of 2 once-in-a-generation players" argument.  Cam and Luke are great - but so are a bunch of their peers.

It's not easy to win a SB at all. But it's much much easier to win one when you have two transcendent players like Cam and Luke at the most important position on each side of the ball. If we can't win one with these two they will to a degree have been wasted here. However I'm not even close to the point where I think we won't win one with these two. I still think we can win one this year, and there are a lot of pieces in place for a bright next few years as well. Lot of time left but we definitely need to capitalize and win it sooner rather than later.