Defense needs as much blame

[Untouchable]

1 hour ago, SCO96 said:

I've never got much feed back when I presented this question, but I'd like to bring it up again since we're talking about the defense.

We all agree for the most part that Worley has been a disappointment at CB. But, most of us will agree that he doesn't seem shy about making contact on defense. When G-Man drafted him he said he did so because Worley led the NCAA in INT's the last year he played and his philosophy was that guys who get INT's in college often get them in the pros.

Do any of you think Worley could possibly be a better safety than CB in the NFL?

He might be able to make more plays if were lined up deeper and could keep more plays in front of him. If I'm not mistaken, I think some scouts even projected him to be a safety in the NFL. I think he even said he'd be willing to play wherever he could help out the most.

Maybe as a free safety but that wouldn't be in Carolina.  Safeties have to be interchangeable between the two positions here and I don't see that for him.  I still think CB is going to be his best but I'm also not as down on him as most are.  I think he should be just be depth right now though but can't be.

[JawnyBlaze]

12 hours ago, SCO96 said:

 

Brady won a Super Bowl with Danny Amendola, Chris Hogan, and Julian Eddlemon. He didn’t even have Gronk for the playoffs last year. He won one super bowl in 2014 with Brandon Lafell, a Carolina castoff, as a starter against the Legion of Boom. If our WR core was in NE they’d still be putting 28-30 points every week.

We need better offense I’ve game planning but We also need better QB play. I’ve always felt great QB’s make their skill players better. Cam really doesn’t do that on a consistent basis. He carries the team on his back at times , but I think he’s got play better and become more of coach on the field to get the best out of this current group.

 

If we had amendola, Edelman, and Hogan we’d be good at wr. None of them are elite, but they get separation and make catches. None of our receivers do either regularly. 

[SCO96]

5 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

If we had amendola, Edelman, and Hogan we’d be good at wr. None of them are elite, but they get separation and make catches. None of our receivers do either regularly. 

Good point sir. Byrd, Samuel and Clay are faster than the 3 guys you cited above yet not nearly as effective. Why do you think they are unable to get separation? Is it poor coaching, poor route design, or poor route running on the part of our wideouts?

[gmonjimbo]

9 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

Good point sir. Byrd, Samuel and Clay are faster than the 3 guys you cited above yet not nearly as effective. Why do you think they are unable to get separation? Is it poor coaching, poor route design, or poor route running on the part of our wideouts?

I think Samuel will be a good player for us. If you looked at his metrics, he was averaging about 4 yards of separation and flashed the limited times he was on the field. He is only 21 and I expect him to get better and hopefully the injuries that plagued him this year will be behind him. People might try to write him off like they did Funchess. When it comes to Byrd and Clay they are fast but it has to do with the way you run routes to maximize that speed. They have to use that speed to set defenders up, how fast they are in and out of their cuts, how much depth they get into a certain route. I don't think they have grasped that aspect of the game. The Panthers need to get another WR. I'm fine with Funchess and Samuel as #1 and #2 WR but Shepard and Clay have shown they are special teamers and should not see more than 5-10 offensive snaps a game.

[beastson]

7 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

Good point sir. Byrd, Samuel and Clay are faster than the 3 guys you cited above yet not nearly as effective. Why do you think they are unable to get separation? Is it poor coaching, poor route design, or poor route running on the part of our wideouts?

Poor routes. New England runs what's called option routes. The receivers read the defense and pretty much run their own routes in the zone and get the ball quick. That's missing here. The real problem is run game. Get a run game who can get 4-5 yards consistently on 1st down, bringing us to a decent 2nd down or 3rd and short and who can bring safeties in the box we can hit more on play-action. Stew can't do it and neither can CMC. Saquon Barkley is one of those in the lifetime backs. His quickness and speed can do that. Draft a Guard in the 2nd

[CarolinaSamurai]

1 hour ago, Peppers90 NC said:

Easy points when punter drops the ball, Peppers makes boneheaded play to give them a first after a stop on 3rd down. Probably a few others as well.

They weren't all points from bad penaties or drops. This defense failed to stop the run and it was terrible. 

[JawnyBlaze]

4 hours ago, SCO96 said:

Good point sir. Byrd, Samuel and Clay are faster than the 3 guys you cited above yet not nearly as effective. Why do you think they are unable to get separation? Is it poor coaching, poor route design, or poor route running on the part of our wideouts?

Byrd gets separation sometimes, but he’s more long fast than short area quickness, which is the key to getting separation. Samuel is raw, we’ll see with him but right now it’s just getting used to the playbook and learning nuances of route running for him. Clay just isnt a good WR. Could be the same as the other two. It basically comes down to Shula being terrible at passing play design those three being young and still learning the game while the Pats guys are savvy vets. 

[PleaseCutStewart]

19 hours ago, CarolinaSamurai said:

Our offense wasn't terrible. They got 21 points. If the D had done what they go out to do every game and limit then to 17 or less we win. 

They got 21 due to a short field off the Mitchell FF and a garbage time TD because the Saints were in prevent D. The Redskins and Rams had their way with the Saints D the past 2 weeks; the Panthers didn't. The offense also left points on the board with that terrible 4th down route by Funchess

[ncfan]

14 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

We can complain about the secondary til the cows come home, but decent WR plus a HOF QB are going to pick apart that soft-ass zone we play for almost the whole game as long as we don’t get consistent pressure in the pocket.

Problem is, thats every game.

 

Secondary has been masked by the front 7 all year but its the biggest weakness on this team.  Huge Huge difference between this year and 2015

Turnovers

 

Those turnover set up Real damn good field position.  You get the ball to start on their end of the field.  Its a win.

 

Lets take a look at this year and 215

This year

2 ints TOTAL among ONE DB

1 Forced Fumbled among ONE DB

 

2015

15 ints among  FIVE DBs (one with 7 and one with 4)

7 Forced Fumbles among FOUR DBs

 

 

This Secondary is trash this year and needs work

 

[CarolinaSamurai]

4 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Problem is, thats every game.

 

Secondary has been masked by the front 7 all year but its the biggest weakness on this team.  Huge Huge difference between this year and 2015

Turnovers

 

Those turnover set up Real damn good field position.  You get the ball to start on their end of the field.  Its a win.

 

Lets take a look at this year and 215

This year

2 ints TOTAL among ONE DB

1 Forced Fumbled among ONE DB

 

2015

15 ints among  FIVE DBs (one with 7 and one with 4)

7 Forced Fumbles among FOUR DBs

 

 

This Secondary is trash this year and needs work

 

Yep! We needed to draft lattimore and Budda Baker. Or Derek Barnette and Budda

[LA_Panther]

23 hours ago, thebigcat said:

We put out one of the worst wr corps in the NFL history with Funchess, Bersin, Byrd, Clay.... I have never seen something that atrocious

We don’t have a WR corps. I like Funchess, but he won’t even be the #2 WR on so many other teams 

[Darvinsun]

22 hours ago, Hoenheim said:

This team really needs some serious retooling once the offseason gets here. No I'm not saying seasons over, if we do get int he playoffs itll be a wild card and early exit for sure we have way too many holes everywhere.

Like Castavar said, its pretty insane how much the organization put into drafting defense high for so many years and we still have a pitiful product on the field. Defense was never the same after 2015 , Norman let go, Harper/Tillman gone, just set our whole backend haywire and we've never recovered from it.

Losing Ginn crippled our downfield passing game. Say what you want about his drops, but we have even worse WRs with even worse hands right now, and they arent as fast as Ginn was.

We're in dire need of a #1 WR who catches everything, even funchess has had problems with drops for two games strait. We also desperately need to replace literally everyone in the secondary with good players who arent constantly getting burned down the middle of the field every game, sick and tired of it. Keep Bradberry and replace everyone else with actuall good players 

Byrd can handle ginns role I think, the problem is he does not have enough targets to get teams to really pay attention to him... Ginn had Olsen on the field who was also a distraction on the field.. We currently have no one that strikes fear in the heart of a defense..Shula does not know how to create it..say what you may..bryd has the speed and hands.. he just does not have the targets.. Mix up the route reads and things will be better....The defense sucks on the back end Adams played good..bradbeery is ok not a shut down just a body that is there..he is no threat to intercepting anything..i thought that was suppose to be Worley strong side but hell playing 20 yards off he cant pick anything..to say adams is your best backend player is awful with him being as old as he is.

[JARROD]

13 hours ago, beastson said:

Poor routes. New England runs what's called option routes. The receivers read the defense and pretty much run their own routes in the zone and get the ball quick. That's missing here. The real problem is run game. Get a run game who can get 4-5 yards consistently on 1st down, bringing us to a decent 2nd down or 3rd and short and who can bring safeties in the box we can hit more on play-action. Stew can't do it and neither can CMC. Saquon Barkley is one of those in the lifetime backs. His quickness and speed can do that. Draft a Guard in the 2nd

Our running backs have the worst push line in the league, that’s been demonstrated over and over.

the average is 2.3 yards of push once the running back hits the hole, hence 3-5 yard runs. Ours averages less than a yard, hence 2-4 yard runs.

no one else would do better. Don’t kid yourselves.

the offensive line as a whole really really sucks bad, worst unit on the team by far, even the receivers

[beastson]

3 hours ago, JARROD said:

Our running backs have the worst push line in the league, that’s been demonstrated over and over.

the average is 2.3 yards of push once the running back hits the hole, hence 3-5 yard runs. Ours averages less than a yard, hence 2-4 yard runs.

no one else would do better. Don’t kid yourselves.

the offensive line as a whole really really sucks bad, worst unit on the team by far, even the receivers

The oline can be built over time, that's how it usually works. Cam has about 3 more years left on his contract. Get him that star RB and get us that star offensive playmaker just in case Cam is no longer here. CAP averaging 6.1, but Ron isn't going to use him. Stew is lacking burst and vision, his time is up. CMC struggles breaking tackles and he needs a zone blocking scheme to be effective, which Shula doesn't run... he never did going back to TB. So unless we switch OC which we wont and bring in someone who can deploy that, we're not cutting in running wise