So, To The Point That Supposedly The 8th Overall Should Be An Immediate All-Pro, Here's A List Of The Last Ten 8th Overall Picks

[iamhubby1]

58 minutes ago, SeoulPanther said:

Wrong again. That was @KendrickPanther not me. 

I don't know how to make this clearer for you. This discussion is not an attack on CMC it is questioning his value at the #8 pick.

Fact: He is a top 10 pick who wouldn't have been in the conversation as a top 10 pick if he wasn't supposed to be a RB.

His saving grace and the thing that makes him a safe pick 1st round is his catching ability. This, and his volume of usage makes him a worthwhile addition but it wasn't the reason he was sold as #8 pick. This skill set - 3rd down back/slot receiver, can be found throughout the rounds of most drafts in most years. That's why at #8 people question it. Never mind Dickerson, CMC's not going to come close to 800 yards rushing this year.  If you want to give him credit for something that he hasn't done yet, in your assessment of his draft value then you could say the same for anyone. 

 

   Sorry I mixed @KendrickPanther and you. My bad. 

 

 

    I have never given the kid any numbers to hit. All I care about is his production, and how he can make us better. 

 

    There are a plethora of folks who think he is a bust already. There are plenty of folks calling him a Slot Receiver. And folks like you who question his value. After 10 games. All because he doesn't have enough rushing yards to satisfy them.

 

    All I have been debating is patience. Let's see what he does when he actually gets the carries needed to put up some yards. Then we can see what he can do.

 

    But it seems that asking folks to have patience with the process, is just too much to ask.

 

    It seems like folks just have to have their labels.

    

[Toomers]

1 hour ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

   Sorry I mixed @KendrickPanther and you. My bad. 

 

 

    I have never given the kid any numbers to hit. All I care about is his production, and how he can make us better. 

 

    There are a plethora of folks who think he is a bust already. There are plenty of folks calling him a Slot Receiver. And folks like you who question his value. After 10 games. All because he doesn't have enough rushing yards to satisfy them.

 

    All I have been debating is patience. Let's see what he does when he actually gets the carries needed to put up some yards. Then we can see what he can do.

 

    But it seems that asking folks to have patience with the process, is just too much to ask.

 

    It seems like folks just have to have their labels.

    

   And some folks can’t tell the difference between criticizing the value of the pick and the player himself. 

  Answer this question for me? Would you take a PK in the 1st round. He will be one of the best ever...guaranteed. You taking him? Why or why not?

[SeoulPanther]

1 hour ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

   Sorry I mixed @KendrickPanther and you. My bad. 

 

 

    I have never given the kid any numbers to hit. All I care about is his production, and how he can make us better. 

 

    There are a plethora of folks who think he is a bust already. There are plenty of folks calling him a Slot Receiver. And folks like you who question his value. After 10 games. All because he doesn't have enough rushing yards to satisfy them.

 

    All I have been debating is patience. Let's see what he does when he actually gets the carries needed to put up some yards. Then we can see what he can do.

 

    But it seems that asking folks to have patience with the process, is just too much to ask.

 

    It seems like folks just have to have their labels.

    

 I like that you're defending him, but I still think we are talking at cross-purposes. We can agree that he most certainly is neither a bust nor close to a fail as a pick. In that sense its completely fair to talk about what he may do in the future because you need to give a player time to assess this.

But since I'm focusing on his worth as a #8 pick not a blanket statement about his career or what he may do in the future, his production now (particularly considering that he was picked higher because of it) is pertinent. 206 yards rushing in 10 games doesn't justify him as a top 10 selection at RB. Other stats and value to the team which is considerable don't change this fact. 

I would argue that its fair to begin to assess and have an opinion ofx a player (especially an RB) on his production and general play based on the position he was drafted for immediately. So my question is this-with a view to draft value at his position. What about his running makes you think he will see significant improvement?

 

[cookinbrak]

2 hours ago, SeoulPanther said:

His saving grace and the thing that makes him a safe pick 1st round is his catching ability. This, and his volume of usage makes him a worthwhile addition but it wasn't the reason he was sold as #8 pick. This skill set - 3rd down back/slot receiver, can be found throughout the rounds of most drafts in most years.

His saving grace is the ability to move the sticks. All the buttmonkeys on here can pigeonhole all they want, but as long as he helps out, he was a good pick.

  I really don't understand the hate, but then I do. What did you want/expect? You can't make other teams draft according to what you want, you have to take what's left. We took the guy that could help us the most.

[Cat]

I can't follow the logic of this post. What point are you trying to make with this information? Is it that sometimes teams fug up their first round picks, sometimes they kill it and sometimes they are OK. If so then no poo. 

Seriously the original post is garbage. How has this thread went on for 8 pages and only a couple of people addressed the flawed logic?!

 

Note : this response has nothing to do with CMC or my opinion of him. 

[rico6]

On 11/23/2017 at 10:56 AM, *FreeFua* said:

First of all comparing 8th overall selections from past drafts is dumb as hell considering every draft is different and the teams making those selections are different.

Secondly, this organization refuses to properly address offensive needs in FA. Had we gone Lattimore at 8 our offense would be even more screwed than it already is.

McCaffery has provided Cam with an outlet the majority of the time as well and that’s worth a lot. I’m guessing we’ll see some things open up for Christian with Olsen coming back too and his numbers will slowly start climbing.

After blowing his last 2 first rounders on Shaq (a luxury we could not afford) and Butler (a bust) I’ll make peace with McCaffery seeing Dave has set my expectations bar so low.

If there’s a pick from this draft you all should be mad about it’s the Curtis Samuel pick. You don’t go back to back gadget players especially one without hands. We needed a WR not Samuel.

Hated that God damned pick.

[Mikey815]

There are very few picks in the draft who would have helped Cam and our offense more than Cmc. Stewart is averaging close to 3 ypc with double his carries so u can’t put the rushing blame solely on him. Fact is he may be the best receiving back ever,  blocks ok is durable rarely fumbles and I think will prove to be a good runner when he can get some space to run. Picture him next year at about 212 to 215 lbs. I believe he IS capable of 100 catches and close to 1800 all purpose yds yearly

[iamhubby1]

9 hours ago, Toomers said:

   And some folks can’t tell the difference between criticizing the value of the pick and the player himself. 

  Answer this question for me? Would you take a PK in the 1st round. He will be one of the best ever...guaranteed. You taking him? Why or why not?

 

    And many folks refuse to realize that until CmC starts getting carries. It is impossible to calculate his true value. 

 

    And it has come to this. Because I am willing to wait until CmC is actually used as a full time RB, to accurately judge his value. I must be bat shiit crazy. And would take a PK in the 1st.

 

    All this vitriol thrown my way. All because CmC doesn't have enough rushing yards after 10 games. 

 

    Never mind all the things he does for this team. Because he won't get close to 1,000 yards. He was a terrible value pick.

 

   

[iamhubby1]

9 hours ago, SeoulPanther said:

 I like that you're defending him, but I still think we are talking at cross-purposes. We can agree that he most certainly is neither a bust nor close to a fail as a pick. In that sense its completely fair to talk about what he may do in the future because you need to give a player time to assess this.

But since I'm focusing on his worth as a #8 pick not a blanket statement about his career or what he may do in the future, his production now (particularly considering that he was picked higher because of it) is pertinent. 206 yards rushing in 10 games doesn't justify him as a top 10 selection at RB. Other stats and value to the team which is considerable don't change this fact. 

I would argue that its fair to begin to assess and have an opinion ofx a player (especially an RB) on his production and general play based on the position he was drafted for immediately. So my question is this-with a view to draft value at his position. What about his running makes you think he will see significant improvement?

 

 

    You are the first person to actually ask what I think. Instead of attacking my stance. I appreciate that.

 

    After 10 games. CmC has 69 carries. Is it really fair to try and put a value on that? Is it his fault he doesn't get more carries? What could he do with more carries? Who knows. But, It is the crux of all the angst surrounding him.

 

    Is it Shula's fault for not getting him more carries. Is it the Oline's fault for not opening better holes? Is it CmC himself? 

 

    Until his carries increase. We will never know. But IMO, it is unfair to judge him by rushing stats. When he has so few rushing attempts.

[Toomers]

25 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

    And many folks refuse to realize that until CmC starts getting carries. It is impossible to calculate his true value. 

 

    And it has come to this. Because I am willing to wait until CmC is actually used as a full time RB, to accurately judge his value. I must be bat shiit crazy. And would take a PK in the 1st.

 

    All this vitriol thrown my way. All because CmC doesn't have enough rushing yards after 10 games. 

 

    Never mind all the things he does for this team. Because he won't get close to 1,000 yards. He was a terrible value pick.

 

   

Well. It was an attempt to show you what VALUE truly is but once again you took it as a shot and are trying to play the victim card. No sense in trying to discuss it further.

 

[Mikey815]

I have never seen so much debate about the value of one draft pick. Absolutely NO debate about Samuel who has rarely played.

i don’t understand the concern/fascination with a rookie rb.

[TheRed]

Rarely will people agree much about draft value, these debates rage on forever.

But what Panthers fans should be able to agree on is that, fair or not, we absolutely must get production out of our ground game from someone not named Cam Newton. The run game has seemed to work the last few games, we must continue that if we want to compete in the postseason. That means CMC has to step up big, rookie or no rookie. I think he will.

[iamhubby1]

23 minutes ago, Toomers said:

Well. It was an attempt to show you what VALUE truly is but once again you took it as a shot and are trying to play the victim card. No sense in trying to discuss it further.

 

 

    Please explain to me how your last post was meant to show me how to calculate value? By using a PK in the 1st as an example?

 

    Sorry. But that does nothing to clear this up. 

 

    Just admit that if CmC had more rushing yards, most folks would be fawning all over him. But because his rushing yards are so few. Folks are having trouble accepting the VALUE. 

[iamhubby1]

23 minutes ago, Mikey815 said:

I have never seen so much debate about the value of one draft pick. Absolutely NO debate about Samuel who has rarely played.

i don’t understand the concern/fascination with a rookie rb.

 

    It all comes down to whether or not you feel that CmC was worth the 8th pick?

 

    Some of us are preaching patience. Others? Not so much.