Hurney scouting?

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

Funchess, Klein (starter on a division rival now), Williams (current starter at RT), Turner, Short, Mayo (damn decent back-up), and UDFA Norwell as well as many other contributors like CAP, Brown, Bene, etc. who weren't great but still had a role. That's excluding the most recent draft where it's too early to tell, but all signs pointing to Butker being a beast for KC. That's over 4 years. 

Hurney had Kalil, LaFell, Norman, Nortman, Hardy*, Johnson, Hangartner, Wharton, Witherspoon, and Captain as the only guys worth a poo over 11 years. 

Based on the small sample size, I disagree with you. 

 

 

If you are gonna add guys like CAP for Gettlemen than you gotta expand Hurney’s list...

include the LaFells, James Andersons, Hangartners is the world.

I’d probably even think about giving Hurney Manning Jr.  NFL rule change killed him and wouldn of killed lots of guys careers early that game before him

[ncfan]

39 minutes ago, I'm the Mike said:

Marty wants the "turnover chain"....

Hopefully because our DBs have been $hit this year at getting ints and forcing fumbles

 

That being said hes got to be scouting  defense. 

Offensively only is worth a damn as far as scouting.  Hes a stud Slot but we dint need a slit WR, we need a #2.  Berrios woupd put a end to Bersin here for good.  Probably the best blocking WR out there, good route runner, shifty.  Just small

 

 

Defensively couod be the UVA saftey which im not a fan of, to overhyped.

 

Hopefully watching Miami's Chad Thomas who has really began to breakout this last half of the season and is a good 4-3 DE prospect

[Ricky Spanish]

20 minutes ago, CRA said:

If you are gonna add guys like CAP for Gettlemen than you gotta expand Hurney’s list...

include the LaFells, James Andersons, Hangartners is the world.

I’d probably even think about giving Hurney Manning Jr.  NFL rule change killed him and wouldn of killed lots of guys careers early that game before him

I did include them.

[Cyberjag]

Evan Mathis wasn't a terrible pick, just terrible for us.  

GMs pick talent.  It's up to the coaching staff to make it shine.

[grimesgoat]

33 minutes ago, Carolina Cajun said:

Fair point, but lets look at picks that just correspond to similar positions.

Gettleman picked #14 Lotulelei, #28 KB , #25 Shaq, #30 Butler, and #8 CMC

In comparable positions

Hurney picked #14 Thomas Davis, #28 Chris Gamble, #25 Jon Beason, #27 Deangelo Williams, and #8 Jordan Gross

I honestly think that list gives an even more definitive slam dunk for Hurney in his first round.

Anyone can pick a stud in the first round, especially in the top of the draft, that's why I discount Cam and Peppers.  Both were no-brainers.

I think it is way too early to compare CMC with anyone.  He's got 10 games under his belt.  Lets see what happens.  Gross was all-pro 1 year and made 3 pro bowls so the bar is high but reachable.

Also who should we compare our 2009 (#28) and 2010 (#17) picks to?  We pissed both of them away.

As I said, anyone can hit on a first rounder, but how about the 1-2 punch.

2013: Lotulelei/Short vs. 2005: TD/Eric Shelton or 2010: #17 traded/Clausen

2014: KB/Ealy vs. 2004: Gamble/Colbert

2015: Shaq/Funchess vs. 2007: Beason/Jarrett

2016: Butler/Bradberry vs. 2009 #28 traded/E Brown

 

 

[Carolina Cajun]

10 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

Anyone can pick a stud in the first round, especially in the top of the draft, that's why I discount Cam and Peppers.  Both were no-brainers.

I think it is way too early to compare CMC with anyone.  He's got 10 games under his belt.  Lets see what happens.  Gross was all-pro 1 year and made 3 pro bowls so the bar is high but reachable.

Also who should we compare our 2009 (#28) and 2010 (#17) picks to?  We pissed both of them away.

As I said, anyone can hit on a first rounder, but how about the 1-2 punch.

2013: Lotulelei/Short vs. 2005: TD/Eric Shelton or 2010: #17 traded/Clausen

2014: KB/Ealy vs. 2004: Gamble/Colbert

2015: Shaq/Funchess vs. 2007: Beason/Jarrett

2016: Butler/Bradberry vs. 2009 #28 traded/E Brown

 

 

I'm not saying to discount our traded picks, but that is a completely different argument than comparing picks.  FWIW, myself included, I don't think you'll find a single person who defends Hurney's 2nd round picks, they almost all seemingly sucked, my defense was only for his first round.  Also, it's not as much of a slam dunk to draft in the first as you make it out IMO.  I mean, FWIW, KB is no where near the player Gamble was, Shaq is no where near the player that Beason was and hell, Lotulelei isn't TD level either even though he's very good.  CMC can be very good, I still believe in him, but if he's half the player that Gross was for us, then I'll be ecstatic.

To the root of this thread is how good of a Talent Evaluator Hurney is, and first round wise, the guys who change organizations, and he had a knack for nailing those picks.  Also don't forget that J-No was a Hurney pick.  he sucked later, but he didn't miss every time either.

[TheCasillas]

19 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

Anyone can pick a stud in the first round, especially in the top of the draft, that's why I discount Cam and Peppers.  Both were no-brainers.

I think it is way too early to compare CMC with anyone.  He's got 10 games under his belt.  Lets see what happens.  Gross was all-pro 1 year and made 3 pro bowls so the bar is high but reachable.

Also who should we compare our 2009 (#28) and 2010 (#17) picks to?  We pissed both of them away.

As I said, anyone can hit on a first rounder, but how about the 1-2 punch.

2013: Lotulelei/Short vs. 2005: TD/Eric Shelton or 2010: #17 traded/Clausen

2014: KB/Ealy vs. 2004: Gamble/Colbert

2015: Shaq/Funchess vs. 2007: Beason/Jarrett

2016: Butler/Bradberry vs. 2009 #28 traded/E Brown

 

 

Explain the browns for me then..... hahahahaha

[jfra78]

24 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

Anyone can pick a stud in the first round, especially in the top of the draft, that's why I discount Cam and Peppers.  Both were no-brainers.

I think it is way too early to compare CMC with anyone.  He's got 10 games under his belt.  Lets see what happens.  Gross was all-pro 1 year and made 3 pro bowls so the bar is high but reachable.

Also who should we compare our 2009 (#28) and 2010 (#17) picks to?  We pissed both of them away.

As I said, anyone can hit on a first rounder, but how about the 1-2 punch.

2013: Lotulelei/Short vs. 2005: TD/Eric Shelton or 2010: #17 traded/Clausen

2014: KB/Ealy vs. 2004: Gamble/Colbert

2015: Shaq/Funchess vs. 2007: Beason/Jarrett

2016: Butler/Bradberry vs. 2009 #28 traded/E Brown

 

 

Cam was not a slam dunk, there were a lot of fans and experts that thought we would go in other directions at the time.  

[Cyberjag]

Peppers wasn't a slam dunk either, a lot of GMs may have gone for Harrington given our severe need at the time for a QB.

In 2007 we took Jarrett, but we also grabbed Kalil in the 2nd and Johnson in the 3rd.  Easy to overlook that if you're arguing that he didn't draft well past the first, huh?

I think that Hurney is an average drafter past the first, but he has shown a knack for nailing them in the first.  The biggest difference between him and Gettleman in later rounds is that often Hurney seemed to stockpile picks, while Gettleman was more likely to trade late day picks away.  It's hard to miss on a 6th rounder when you don't have one, right?

[TheCasillas]

17 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

Cam was not a slam dunk, there were a lot of fans and experts that thought we would go in other directions at the time.  

TBH it was Cam or Marcel Dareus - and MD wasn't that touted. I don't think it matters what the fans or media thought, considering it was ultimately Marty/JR's decision.

Also, I think the you used "slam dunk" in the wrong context. Slam Dunk = Nailed it. I think the you meant it with the intention of it meaning "layup" - easy choice. If not, then you are wrong... Cam was a slam dunk.

 

Cam= Layup and Slam Dunk in the end though  (do not know what to call that)

[grimesgoat]

1 hour ago, Carolina Cajun said:

I'm not saying to discount our traded picks, but that is a completely different argument than comparing picks.  FWIW, myself included, I don't think you'll find a single person who defends Hurney's 2nd round picks, they almost all seemingly sucked, my defense was only for his first round.  Also, it's not as much of a slam dunk to draft in the first as you make it out IMO.  I mean, FWIW, KB is no where near the player Gamble was, Shaq is no where near the player that Beason was and hell, Lotulelei isn't TD level either even though he's very good.  CMC can be very good, I still believe in him, but if he's half the player that Gross was for us, then I'll be ecstatic.

To the root of this thread is how good of a Talent Evaluator Hurney is, and first round wise, the guys who change organizations, and he had a knack for nailing those picks.  Also don't forget that J-No was a Hurney pick.  he sucked later, but he didn't miss every time either.

The whole comparison thing is very subjective - we're comparing players that played different positions with each other as well as comparing 1-3 year players with players that had 10-year careers. 

To me, its not a Hurney vs. Gettleman battle.  Its a Hurney vs. every other NFL GM battle.  The fact Hurney manages to pick well in the first round is nice, but we need to fill 53 slots.  Looking at those 2009-2012 drafts, we probably got 4 really good players (Cam, Keuchley, Norman, Hardy) and a bunch of trash.  That will not cut it over the long haul.

[Fright]

Aside from the Hurney-Gman debate... I haven’t watched either of these teams, any ideas on who we might be looking at? 

[Mr. Scot]

59 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

The whole comparison thing is very subjective - we're comparing players that played different positions with each other as well as comparing 1-3 year players with players that had 10-year careers. 

To me, its not a Hurney vs. Gettleman battle.  Its a Hurney vs. every other NFL GM battle.  The fact Hurney manages to pick well in the first round is nice, but we need to fill 53 slots.  Looking at those 2009-2012 drafts, we probably got 4 really good players (Cam, Keuchley, Norman, Hardy) and a bunch of trash.  That will not cut it over the long haul.

I can't ever recall being comforted over (yet another) losing record by the notion that at least we got a great first round pick in the prior draft.

As has been repeated many times, GMs are judged by the entire roster, not by the highlights.

If you've got 10 to 12 great players but your overall team is still consistently mediocre, you're not a good GM.

[SmartyHurney]

4 hours ago, Cracka McNasty said:

Funchess, Klein (starter on a division rival now), Williams (current starter at RT), Turner, Short, Mayo (damn decent back-up), and UDFA Norwell as well as many other contributors like CAP, Brown, Bene, etc. who weren't great but still had a role. That's excluding the most recent draft where it's too early to tell, but all signs pointing to Butker being a beast for KC. That's over 4 years. 

Hurney had Kalil, LaFell, Norman, Nortman, Hardy*, Johnson, Hangartner, Wharton, Witherspoon, and Captain as the only guys worth a poo over 11 years. 

Based on the small sample size, I disagree with you. 

 

 

Funchess was a high second round pick that Gettleman traded up for. He traded quite a bit for a player that's been mediocre beyond a few games in his career. Klein was a dumb pick. Stacking the LBs yet again, great job, I hope he does great for a divisional rival because we had 0 room on the roster for him. Williams has been bad to mediocre, and again Dave TRADED UP for him.

I don't even know why I'm bothering, I give up. You guys can take his horrendous tradeups, and first to late round wiffs as some great talent evaluation if you want. The guy was far below average in drafting and free agency.

He caused Carolina to have the fewest draft picks in his tenure. He also caused the Panthers to overpay so many poo quality free agents that left half-way through the season or at the end.