Nice observation from Sunday's game

[cookinwithgas]

How many of them go on to make their own Vietnam war movie, and actually go to Vietnam to film it?

[PhillyB]

2 hours ago, xav8tor said:

Revisionist history. I was too young to be shipped off, but was in ROTC back then. Than uniform made me a target for isolation from the majority of others at school, snide comments, gum stuck to my backside, etc. Only once was I spit on, and I put a stop to that decisively on the spot, but I had older friends that came home through the west coast who told me that sort of thing, and worse, was rampant out there. Of course, I'd seen it multiple times on the evening news. I know it was the uniform and the assumptions others made, and not me, because when I failed a vision test, I left ROTC, grew my hair out, and exchanged the dress blues for blue jeans. Suddenly, things changed, just like that.

meh, i was in ROTC and police explorers in high school. kids threw ketchup packets at us at the county fair. the ones that weaponize their imagined victimhood are the ones that ultimately deserve it

[PhillyB]

1 hour ago, UpstatePanther said:

Obviously not if you think our soldiers weren’t disrespected when they came home in that era. Retired soldiers tell those stories all the time. For you to deny their testimony and say it was only cus we didn’t have parades makes you the biggest ass I know. Slow clap for your dumb ass. 

you answered his carefully constructed post and his ample cited sources with loads of hot air and nothing else. your post reads "how dare you assert that" but offers no fact-based rebuttal. you have to do better than that 

[cookinwithgas]

I was in Civil Air Patrol in 8th and 9th grade, just a few years after Vietnam, and was tormented all the time

 

but it had nothing to do with me being in Civil Air Patrol, I was just a skinny short dork who thought he was funny.

 

some things never change (except the skinny part)

[cookinwithgas]

All I need to do is look at how the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" treated John Kerry to understand what bullshit all that "spitting on vets is wrong!" is.

[pantherphan96]

ah yes, i like to keep my politics separate from football... unless, of course, they happen to coincide with my political beliefs

this unabated hero worship of the troops has gone from overdone to straight up jingoism. 

[UpstatePanther]

4 minutes ago, AggieLean said:

@UpstatePanther why did you poop my statement? I’m curious. lol I was just repeating what ole boy said earlier.

You were quoting me without tagging me. I took a dump on your post for that fact alone. You can’t come at someone directly?

Not to mention the implication of your “lol”. I hate to be petty and break ish down like that. I really could care less, which is why I didn’t respond to you. But now you’re asking so here it goes...

Yes some things are absolutely bigger than football. Honoring our service members for the sacrifices they make is one of them. Same goes for the flag of our nation and the ideals it stands for. Has America been perfect? Not by a long shot. I don’t deny that. But then again there has never been a nation to enshrine human rights like ours. And never has a nation enshrined that those rights are natural and come from the Higher Power, not from government. Then again, and I hope this means something to you, those rights are not always protected the way they should be in our nation today. That too is bigger than football. But it is not a reason to protest the flag. It’s a reason to elect new officials and work for reform because the issue is not a national one, but a local one.

ive said my peace. I don’t really want to argue. If you want to have a real, civil discussion about politics, feel free to PM me. I don’t want @ladypanther‘s thread sent to the TB lol 

[Fox007]

We need a reintegration program for combat troops and having people serve 3+ combat tours is literally torture and shouldn't be allowed unless the countries existence depended on such things. But having people  with 5 and more combat tours off of some bullshit can't be defended and I know a lot of those people volunteer to go back because they don't have anything else or know anything else but you have to save them from that cycle to begin with.

Something like: Military(combat personnel) > integration period > civilian

Now it's just like, oh you can't be AD anymore, discharge. People with severe injuries or disabilities are getting severance packages(if anything) and don't even realize they are eligible for disability pay, medical retirement, and or health care. They tried to offer me 10% and $20,000 and sort of mumble/put in the fine print "but you can appeal something something rabble rabble the decision". I was like you god damn right I'm appealing. Most troops don't even know and aren't even told or it's presented in such a way such that they think it's final. Also a lot of troops are so used to just taking orders that they take those as an order when it's not. Lucky for me I was a bit of a troublemaker and did my own thing anyway and am smart enough to go through all the paperwork ask all the questions. When I went into the appeal they didn't even see me they just gave me what I was supposed to get anyway didn't even have to see the panel the lawyer told me they said "yea he's good, paperwork is all in order".

So they just try to fug you and save some money at your expense. Now most people who take those packages run out of money instantly, don't get the treatment they need, and possibly just end up homeless. The most important part of this is getting the lifetime treatment(health insurance) out of it. I'd be fuged and probably dead without it.

[xav8tor]

14 minutes ago, PhillyB said:

read jerry lembcke's "the spitting image"

it happened to an extent but the extent to which it happened is an overinflated part of the american mythos

I don't have to read a book. Perhaps the story grew over time, as all do (if the opposite doesn't happen and they're forgotten), but I saw it with my own eyes on the evening news when I was in my teens, and to a lesser extent personally. Guys in uniforms were avoided at best. Insults were hurled frequently for no other reason than what you were wearing. You can easily find video accounts with interviews of those who experienced it firsthand, or you can just ask them yourself. Ask ten, and half will tell you that they ditched the uniform ASAP when they got home because they were branded, and not in the positive way soldiers are viewed now. I guarantee you that even right here in Charlotte, although protests were very limited relatively speaking, if you put on a uniform and walked by one, or even took a stroll in Freedom Park during the annual Festival there back then, you'd be singing a different tune.

[pantherphan96]

>hears a POV they disagree with

>"you're wrong, here's this anecdotal experience to prove it..."

>well actually, here are some sources to better inform yourself

>"your sources are wrong"

>continues blindly believing what makes them feel better and refuses to grow as a person or investigate other POVs/opinions

[UpstatePanther]

7 minutes ago, PhillyB said:

you answered his carefully constructed post and his ample cited sources with loads of hot air and nothing else. your post reads "how dare you assert that" but offers no fact-based rebuttal. you have to do better than that 

You know what I can’t even argue with that. You’re right. The truth is that I’ve heard too many first hand accounts both in person and in writing to dismiss it. Our military members had to have been disrespected or there wouldn’t be so many of them claiming they were. Were I will agree with @electro's horse is that much of the issue probably stems from how the VA treated them upon return. Which is just as much of a tragedy. 

Btw electro, I’d like to thank you for posting that link about how to help. I will be using that.

[PhillyB]

4 minutes ago, xav8tor said:

I don't have to read a book.

ahh yes the hallowed refrain of the culture wars

[xav8tor]

4 minutes ago, PhillyB said:

ahh yes the hallowed refrain of the culture wars

Dude, I have a wall full of degrees on the wall, one with Dr. on it and all but dissertation for another one, and I don't a clue WTF you are trying to say, other than convey that you have the wonderful ability to articulate a pseudo intellectual attitude towards anyone who disagrees with you. Join the list with PU and Francoameraolakookooracha.

[TNPanther]

how is this thread not in the tinderbox?