Nice observation from Sunday's game

[Jon Snow]

2 minutes ago, bLACKpANTHER said:

can you elaborate?

He can't.  He is talking out his ass.  I'm guessing he believes we never landed on the moon and the Holocaust never happened.

[DaGreat_98]

The players applauded those men for their service, which i am proud of. But I do not think they see the military and the representation of the flag in the same light.

[Floppin]

Considering none of the protests have ever been anti-military, I'm not sure why this is surprising.

[electro's horse]

14 minutes ago, bLACKpANTHER said:

can you elaborate?

There's a myth that vietnam soldiers returning from war were spit on, were mistreated, were attacked by protesters, whatever. You've heard it. It's just simply not accurate, and it's a myth that needs to die. Even in the latest Ken Burns documentary, they have almost an entire episode of returning soldiers saying that it was mostly made up. 

Both Nixonland and Invisible Bridge go in to it, if you want good, accessible history books that cover it.

It boils down to this.

WW2 vets and to a lesser extent Korean War vets came home to a ridiculous economy and a poo load of pomp and circumstance. Less so for Korea, but they were still haled as heroes. By the time Nixon was elected the economy was beginning what would be about a 15 year contraction, and those good jobs weren't being created anymore. Bruce Springsteen's Born in the USA is about this, so if people say it's a patriotic song just kick them in the dick. So WW2 you come home, slide into a job doing whatever you want, buy a house and boom. After Vietnam...you get a check in the mail. 

The VA was not equipped to handle the aftermath. Due to the way Vietnam was fought, more people were surviving wounds that would kill them compared to ww2 and korea. Not only could they medically not handle the influx of injured soldiers, but the support systems for them to reintegrate them back into society didn't exist. PTSD existed in WW2 and Korea to be sure, but as these wounded vets flocked into the cities, it became impossible to ignore. People would see them everywhere. It presented the aftermath of war in a way that Americans specifically had never seen before.

Additionally, the war was incredibly unpopular, so the requisite hero worship (constant parades, pomp and circumstance etc) that accompanied previous wars just didn't happen. To returning troops, and those on the right who defended it for no other reason than it being a wedge issue, this was a huge slap in the face. To the people on the left, why would they throw parades? There's no shortage of leftist organizations that reached out to returning veterans to help them with job training, counseling, grief therapy, etc. It was an incredible outpouring of support that's never reported on. The right was pissed the cities didn't throw parades. DISRESPECT!

Most importantly, Nixon exacerbated the divide for political reasons. He would send counter protesters against vietnam protesters, get them riled up, and make sure people in full dress uniform were pushed to the front so he could get that picture. He would invite protesters to his rallies to kick them out. He used fake POWs to fug with peace talks and rile up his base. He wouldn't hold rallies with wounded soldiers because he didn't like optics. Just horrific stuff.

Most importantly, he created the narrative that protesters hated troops, and not the war. which of course is still being used by the right today.

Following that, a guy (whos name is escaping me) invented what would eventually be the right wing mailer industry. Dude fuging walked in to the FEC and copied down the name of everyone that had ever donated to the republican party. Then he would mail them "these liberals are protesting our troops. Donate 2 dollars to whatever." This guy ended up raising billions throughout the years, he's a really fascinating story. 

Some of his most pernicious myths still exist in the cultural conscious today. Like, I'm sure you've heard the myth of troops being spit on in the airport? My mother, for example, firmly believes it happened. So where's the picture of it? How was every photojournalist in the world not sitting at the gate waiting to get that picture? How was it now on the cover of time?

Simple; it didn't happen. 

It's a very bizarre example of cultural amnesia. It became such a political issue that people who started identifying themselves as conservative during this period, and would eventually vote for Reagan, clung to it as something they could use to bash the left. "Of course the left did this, I remember it!" 

But there's no evidence it happened. 

Also the boomers all have lead poisoning but whatever.

In closing, the myth arises from

A.) Political residue from the Nixon administration and the burgeoning right wing grift industry

B.) Structural inefficiencies for returning troops

C.) Cultural apathy that didn't exist following ww2, as well as economic contraction

D.) it being a useful myth for right wingers

[Snake]

8 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

Don't worry about it. Electro/Fiz hasn't said a nice thing about anything since the Reagan administration. Hope that guy finds something to be happy about someday.

 

He's just upset kevin spacey didn't invite him to a hotel room. 

[electro's horse]

There's plenty of scholarship done on this btw

In his exhaustive book entitled "The Spitting Image," Vietnam vet and Holy Cross Prof. Jerry Lembcke documents veterans who claim they were spat on by antiwar protestors, but he found no physical evidence (photographs, news reports, etc.) that these transgressions actually occurred. His findings are supported by surveys of his fellow Vietnam veterans as they came home.

For instance, Lembcke notes that "a U.S. Senate study, based on data collected in August 1971 by Harris Associates, found that 75 percent of Vietnam-era veterans polled disagreed with the statement, 'Those people at home who opposed the Vietnam war often blame veterans for our involvement there'" while "94 percent said their reception by people their own age who had not served in the armed forces was friendly."

Meanwhile, the Veterans' World Project at Southern Illinois University found that many Vietnam vets supported the antiwar protest, with researchers finding almost no veterans "finish[ing] their service in Vietnam believing that what the United States has done there has served to forward our nation's purposes."

http://www.startribune.com/the-myth-of-the-spat-upon-war-veteran/157945515/

[tiger7_88]

9 hours ago, electro's horse said:

You couldn’t even see the flyover. 

I feel bad about whatever happened to you in your life to turn you into such an utter ass of a person.

[Jase]

As a Christian, I find military worship to be wrong.

[electro's horse]

BTW these problems still exist with the VA. 

If you want to actually help and not just post on the internet, you should volunteer. We have a very good VA in asheville and I'm applying for a job there, but they still need people to come and just hang out. Talk to the troops. Sneak them booze. Whatever. 

https://www.volunteer.va.gov/directory/

[xav8tor]

2 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

There's a myth that vietnam soldiers returning from war were spit on, were mistreated, were attacked by protesters, whatever. You've heard it. It's just simply not accurate, and it's a myth that needs to die. Even in the latest Ken Burns documentary, they have almost an entire episode of returning soldiers saying that it was mostly made up. 

Both Nixonland and Invisible Bridge go in to it, if you want good, accessible history books that cover it.

It boils down to this.

WW2 vets and to a lesser extent Korean War vets came home to a ridiculous economy. By the time Nixon was elected the economy was beginning what would be about a 15 year contraction, and those jobs didn't exist anymore. Bruce Springsteen's Born in the USA is about this, so if people say it's a patriotic song just kick them in the dick.

The VA was not equipped to handle it. Due to the way Vietnam was fought, more people were surviving wounds that would kill them. Not only could they medically not handle the influx of injured soldiers, but the support systems for them to reintegrate them back into society didn't exist. PTSD existed in WW2 and Korea to be sure, but as these wounded vets flocked into the cities, it became impossible to ignore. 

Additionally, the war was incredibly unpopular, so the requisite hero worship (constant parades, pomp and circumstance etc) that accompanied previous wars just didn't happen. To returning troops, and those on the right who defended it for no other reason than it being a wedge issue, this was a huge slap in the face. 

Most importantly, Nixon exacerbated the divide for political reasons. He would send counter protesters against vietnam protesters, get them riled up, and make sure people in full dress uniform were pushed to the front so he could get that picture. He would invite protesters to his rallies to kick them out. He used fake POWs to fug with peace talks and rile up his base. 

He created the narrative that protesters hated troops, and not the war. 

Following that, a guy (whos name is escaping me) invented what would eventually be the right wing mailer industry. Dude fuging walked in to the FEC and copied down the name of everyone that had ever donated to the republican party. Then he would mail them "these liberals are protesting our troops. Donate 2 dollars to whatever." This guy ended up raising billions throughout the years, he's a really fascinating story. 

Some of his most pernicious myths still exist in the cultural conscious today. Like, I'm sure you've heard the myth of troops being spit on in the airport? My mother, for example, firmly believes it happened. So where's the picture of it? How was every photojournalist in the world not sitting at the gate waiting to get that picture? How was it now on the cover of time?

Simple; it didn't happen. 

It's a very bizarre example of cultural amnesia. It became such a political issue that people who started identifying themselves as conservative during this period, and would eventually vote for Reagan, clung to it as something they could use to bash the left. "Of course the left did this, I remember it!" 

But there's no evidence it happened. 

Also the boomers all have lead poisoning but whatever.

In closing, the myth arises from

A.) Political residue from the Nixon administration and the burgeoning right wing grift industry

B.) Structural inefficiencies for returning troops

C.) Cultural apathy that didn't exist following ww2, as well as economic contraction

D.) it being a useful myth for right wingers

Revisionist history. I was too young to be shipped off, but was in ROTC back then. Than uniform made me a target for isolation from the majority of others at school, snide comments, gum stuck to my backside, etc. Only once was I spit on, and I put a stop to that decisively on the spot, but I had older friends that came home through the west coast who told me that sort of thing, and worse, was rampant out there. Of course, I'd seen it multiple times on the evening news. I know it was the uniform and the assumptions others made, and not me, because when I failed a vision test, I left ROTC, grew my hair out, and exchanged the dress blues for blue jeans. Suddenly, things changed, just like that.

[AggieLean]

They should do away with all of that. Keep politics out of the sport. Soon as I walk into the stadium, it should be nothing but football.

[electro's horse]

3 minutes ago, xav8tor said:

Revisionist history. I was too young to be shipped off, but was in ROTC back then. Than uniform made me a target for isolation from the majority of others at school, snide comments, gum stuck to my backside, etc. Only once was I spit on, and I put a stop to that decisively on the spot, but I had older friends that came home through the west coast who told me that sort of thing, and worse, was rampant out there. Of course, I'd seen it multiple times on the evening news. I know it was the uniform and the assumptions others made, and not me, because when I failed a vision test, I left ROTC, grew my hair out, and exchanged the dress blues for blue jeans. Suddenly, things changed, just like that.

So you were....made fun of in highschool?

 

[xav8tor]

5 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

So you were....made fun of in highschool?

 

... and all the way through too much of my adult life, because far too often, I acted like the jerk you are acting like here. Eventually, I wised up. Now, I'm the one laughing, both at myself, and those who laughed at me. Young grasshopper, you'd be wise to do the same.

PS... high school is two words Mr. Well Read Intellectual.

[UpstatePanther]

1 hour ago, electro's horse said:

fug you

im not going to apologize because i've read a history book

Obviously not if you think our soldiers weren’t disrespected when they came home in that era. Retired soldiers tell those stories all the time. For you to deny their testimony and say it was only cus we didn’t have parades makes you the biggest ass I know. Slow clap for your dumb ass. 

Short story, fug me? Nah fam. fug you and your radical leftist revisionism.

1 hour ago, xav8tor said:

Revisionist history. I was too young to be shipped off, but was in ROTC back then. Than uniform made me a target for isolation from the majority of others at school, snide comments, gum stuck to my backside, etc. Only once was I spit on, and I put a stop to that decisively on the spot, but I had older friends that came home through the west coast who told me that sort of thing, and worse, was rampant out there. Of course, I'd seen it multiple times on the evening news. I know it was the uniform and the assumptions others made, and not me, because when I failed a vision test, I left ROTC, grew my hair out, and exchanged the dress blues for blue jeans. Suddenly, things changed, just like that.

Lmao you just blew holes all through his “history” lesson with personal testimony. Thank you sir.