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Trading KB, the silver lining

Leeroy Jenkins PhD

By Leeroy Jenkins PhD,
in Carolina Panthers

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

@Montsta being an A’s fan you’ve obviously watched Money Ball. Doesn’t Beane start trading away guys because the manager refuses to switch up the lineup or play Beane’s guys? Or am I remembering it wrong? 

Now I don’t think that’s happening here with KB (maybe it is) but I feel Hurney and Ron are most likely on the same page (even scarier). If anything Ron is too scared to cut KB’s snaps even down more so they shipped him off instead. 

Terrifyingly enough, I could see Hurney trying to replicate what he saw in a movie as GM. Jackass probably pictures himself as Kevin Costner in "Draft Day" right now. 

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Woodie Newbie

Woodie

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Posted
7 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

We picked up that option months ago. The Bills own him through 2018.

The option is not guaranteed (except for injury).  So, Buffalo can rescind it if they choose.  That said, I think it's more than likely they keep him through next year. 

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DaveThePanther2008 Grand Master

DaveThePanther2008

Posted
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17 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins PhD said:

I was just as surprised, confused, and angered as any Panther fan when the Halloween day news broke that the Panthers had traded Kelvin Benjamin for a few draft picks.  Since that time, I have come to understand that it may have actually been a pretty good move.  Let me explain a few points.

 

For starters, the Bills essentially traded a 3rd and 7th round draft pick for the rights to KB for 8 games. No one thinks KB is worth the money he would receive if a team picks up his 5th year option. He just hadn't played at that level.

 

The Panthers desperately needed the cap relief.  This move, paired with a few other Panther vets restructuring or being released could allow for Lotulelei and Norwell to re-sign.  For a team that prides itself on winning the trenches, these two are essential.

 

Marty is forcing Shula to open up the offense. Funchess and KB, when paired as our wr1 and wr2 were lethargic. They could not separate from receivers fast enough to be reliable options in the passing game. Teams were stacking the box against the run, and still able to cover these two due to lack of speed. 

 

The biggest question I have is, if Marty Hurney felt the only way to change the offense was to trade away one of the WRs, he and Shula must not be communicating well.  This move does not make me believe Shula is on good terms with the GM. Maybe we see a change at OC sooner than many people think. 

If Hurney pulled the plug on Shula and got someone in here that knew how to utilize Cam and make this offense purr.  I would be less pessimistic about him remaining as GM.    I cringe at the thought of Cam having Shula his entire career as an OC.  We are wasting his talents.

If Cam doesn't get a decent offensive coordinator soon.  When his contract is up he is going to want to walk away from here.   I think he loves the Panthers and only wants more than anything to be a champion but NOT WITH SHULA.  It will never happen. 

If Hurney cans Shula I will not say one bad thing about Hurney for at least one year.  

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iamhubby1 Veteran

iamhubby1

Posted
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21 hours ago, Paa Langfart said:

You guys who think getting rid of Shula is going to change things are kidding yourselves.  The only way we are going to see change is when Hurney and Rivera are both out the door.  And we now know that Hurney has been given the keys to the executive wash room until June at the minimum.  Which means his guy Rivera will in all likelihood be here for at least another year as well.  So please stop looking for silver linings in the cesspool we find ourselves in.

 

    I know I'm not the sharpest fork in the drawer, but if we got rid of Shula. Wouldn't that be a change? I mean a new OC would be a change? Right?

 

    Cesspool? Rivera, and Cam, have a winning record. Multiple Divisional Championships, an NFC Championship, and a SuperB owl. Plus, we are 5-3. I don't see cesspool.

 

    

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Montsta Community Regular

Montsta

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On 11/3/2017 at 2:48 PM, *FreeFua* said:

@Montsta being an A’s fan you’ve obviously watched Money Ball. Doesn’t Beane start trading away guys because the manager refuses to switch up the lineup or play Beane’s guys? Or am I remembering it wrong? 

Now I don’t think that’s happening here with KB (maybe it is) but I feel Hurney and Ron are most likely on the same page (even scarier). If anything Ron is too scared to cut KB’s snaps even down more so they shipped him off instead. 

Beans tried to find guys that fit the system he was looking for. Really Beane was just a little bit ahead of his time with the advanced metrics everyone uses today, that’s why we haven’t won since. 

The other misconception with Money Ball is that it was just a group of misfits slapped together. We had three pitchers that would be a number one in many rotations at the same time between Hudson, Mulder, and Zito. 

Unless Hurney finds out through some mathematicians that going for it on every fourth down and never punting somehow averages out to better on field performance, it doesn’t really apply apples to apples. 

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Khyber53 Grand Master

Khyber53

Posted
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10 minutes ago, Montsta said:

Beans tried to find guys that fit the system he was looking for. Really Beane was just a little bit ahead of his time with the advanced metrics everyone uses today, that’s why we haven’t won since. 

The other misconception with Money Ball is that it was just a group of misfits slapped together. We had three pitchers that would be a number one in many rotations at the same time between Hudson, Mulder, and Zito. 

Unless Hurney finds out through some mathematicians that going for it on every fourth down and never punting somehow averages out to better on field performance, it doesn’t really apply apples to apples. 

http://www.advancedfootballanalytics.com/index.php/home/research/game-strategy/120-4th-down-study

 

Really, we should do it more often, all teams should. But we shouldn't do it too awfully much more.

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darrybear Newbie

darrybear

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On 11/3/2017 at 5:28 PM, iamhubby1 said:

 

    Folks have been complaining that KB doesn't play like a true #1. That he seems lazy, has lapses in concentration, and seems unmotivated to stay in shape.

 

    Yet when he gets traded? Folks are off their rockers trying paint him as some sort of sacrificial lamb. 

 

    Like you, I have been waiting for more from him. It just never seem to come. I guess the powers that be saw the same thing, because as soon as they got a chance, they dumped him.

 This is what I was thinking I don't feel  that devastated,  I was shocked I'm not gonna lie to you, but I was also shocked when Gettleman was fired the timing  honestly. And to be even more serious that time could be spent elsewhere 

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ImaginaryKev Grand Master

ImaginaryKev

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I honestly had to be convinced by a SF fan friend that trading in this guy was a big deal. I mean he made some good catches and I he was our leading receiver of course, but that's really more of a testament of how weak our receiving corp I currently. Curtis Samuel really did't have a position at OSU so they're hoping to turn him into an athletic slot guy who can run and that's cool, he might be good there. Funchess is pretty much Moose before he decided he was going to be a number one finally when he wanted to get paid, then went to Chicago. KB was clogging all the offense up and people didn't wanna remember that we were better without him in 2015, which is understandable 

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