o line talent isnt the biggest reason why we are struggling to run

[thefuzz]

17 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

And the answer might be just as simple -- go to the no huddle between first downs. Script six plays -- three runs, three passes all utilizing the same personnel and initial line up. Shift on the first call of the cadence. Get the adjustment call based on what the QB sees and run the damn play. Rush back to the line and do it again.

We have excellent players with some excellent abilities. On skills and physical size they can beat most opponents. Remove the trickery from our plays and force them to remove the tactics from theirs and go man to man. If athleticism is our strength over them, use it. If size is our advantage, use it. If a mobile QB is our advantage, use it.

Brains apparently isn't our advantage, quit trying to use that.

Ron isn't going to let Shula go up tempo very much....doesn't fit in with "our style of football".

As fuging stupid as that sounds.

[Khyber53]

Look, we can try and win by outsmarting our opponents. If we played smart, it might work. We're playing like a bunch of dumbasses on offense, though. So we might as well dumb it way down and win like that.

I mean, Einstein was a genius when it came to theoretical physics, but he fell for a right cross every damned time. Glass jaw, I tell ya.

You gotta be able to beat them with the game you can actually play.

[Snake]

Samuel could be but he's not being used right. Clay probably falls under the same situation. 

[GRWatcher]

1 hour ago, Khyber53 said:

Cam is still regularly throwing well over the heads of our 6'4" guys... Anyone know a 7' 3" guy with a 4.25 40 time and moderately good hands?

And therein lies part of the problem. And that's not all on Cam; often it's the only spot he can throw to. Our WR's are not getting the separation to give Cam good choices. KB has been double teamed a lot, Funchess can't seem to throw his big body consistently in front of the CB, Samuel gets lost in the crowd, and it feels like Shepherd takes too long running his route. No team is afraid of any of our WR's. Chicago was beating them up and winning those fights. And don't even talk about anybody coming back towards Cam to give him a target when he's pressured in the pocket. The decision to throw the deep ball is Cam's. But it takes time and if we're on max protect there are fewer bodies down the field so those bodies need to get open.

[SCO96]

2 minutes ago, GRWatcher said:

And therein lies part of the problem. And that's not all on Cam; often it's the only spot he can throw to. Our WR's are not getting the separation to give Cam good choices. KB has been double teamed a lot, Funchess can't seem to throw his big body consistently in front of the CB, Samuel gets lost in the crowd, and it feels like Shepherd takes too long running his route. No team is afraid of any of our WR's. Chicago was beating them up and winning those fights. And don't even talk about anybody coming back towards Cam to give him a target when he's pressured in the pocket. The decision to throw the deep ball is Cam's. But it takes time and if we're on max protect there are fewer bodies down the field so those bodies need to get open.

I agree with everything in your post but the highlighted portion really caught my attention. I've seen a lot of football in my life, and it seems that all the good/great teams have WR's that to come to the aid of the QB if he's under duress; and somehow they get open to make a play. I don't think that's stressed enough in Carolina

[TNPanther]

Greg Olsen being out *might* have a little something to do with it.

 

Just throwing that out there.

[SCO96]

4 minutes ago, TNPanther said:

Greg Olsen being out *might* have a little something to do with it.

 

Just throwing that out there.

I think you're right in terms of our off tackle and end runs. But, Greg's presence shouldn't affect our runs inside thru the A and B gaps. Our guys are getting hit in the backfield by DT's on a lot of plays.

[Khyber53]

If you look around the league, every QB is under pressure on a regular basis. There's someone in their faces and exotic blitzes and rush schemes are for outdistancing any innovations in O-line play. Good QBs are pushing the ball out faster, hitting check downs and quick patterns. Those who can are moving the pocket regularly so that they can be more in control of the flow of the play than the D-line guys.

Cam and those utilizing him aren't getting a lot of mileage here. With the exception of a called roll-out or running play here and there, he's been about as mobile as the statue of JR out in front of the stadium. Yeah, our WR corps is tall and not terribly quick. We are working on our second string TE (who has been doing well, great at times) and we have no running game to speak of. 

We keep asking our line to give us some help in the passing and rushing games, but maybe they aren't getting much assistance there either. Heck, I don't know anymore. All I know is it's like the defense uses capital X's for drawing up plays, but the offense refuses to use anything but lowercase O's for their's.

[General_Purr]

Samuel is no where near fast as Dameire Byrd. 

Samuel is just shifty and can cross the field, Byrd will beat everyone on the team on a sprint from end zone to end zone.

 

[mikeholiday]

10 hours ago, SCO96 said:

Samuels is probably the fastest guy on the team. I know he's been a little injury prone to start his career, but he has played some this year.

It seems he should be the logical replacement for Ginn as the long ball threat.  You could play him at the X, Y, or slot spot and send him deep. You could even line him up in the backfield at times to give him a better release off of the snap.

Injuries aside, if he were on another team I believe he'd be making a bigger impact in his rookie season than he's had in Carolina so far. Samuels (like CMac) appears to be misused in our offense.

There is a lot more to be being a deep ball receiver than being fast. 

[Peppers90 NC]

17 hours ago, mikeholiday said:

There is a lot more to be being a deep ball receiver than being fast. 

fact: the more we lose, the simpler the minded people get around here.

[Khyber53]

Really, we have (just like every team in the league) been spending time and treasure on trying to develop speed guys. Before Ginn, we tried our luck with guys like Pilares and others who had great straightline speed. Sadly, none of them had good hands and each time we saw quickly that without the hands those guys are just overpaid sprinters. Heck, even Ginn wasn't known for his catching ability -- but he did have his best years with Cam. 

Organizationally, we've always tried to keep at least one speedster on the roster or on the practice squad, hoping to move him up the depth chart and into the rotation as a serious threat. But that just isn't as easy as it looks. Al "Speed Kills" Davis spent the last years of his life throwing first round draft picks at speedy receivers, but all they caught for him were paychecks.

There are other ways to draw safeties away from the line and push defenses into a nickle defense, too. Our team just has to start utilizing them more effectively and in such a way that the safeties are more alert to Cam's passing than to his running. 

[Peppers90 NC]

3 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

Really, we have (just like every team in the league) been spending time and treasure on trying to develop speed guys. Before Ginn, we tried our luck with guys like Pilares and others who had great straightline speed. Sadly, none of them had good hands and each time we saw quickly that without the hands those guys are just overpaid sprinters. Heck, even Ginn wasn't known for his catching ability -- but he did have his best years with Cam. 

Organizationally, we've always tried to keep at least one speedster on the roster or on the practice squad, hoping to move him up the depth chart and into the rotation as a serious threat. But that just isn't as easy as it looks. Al "Speed Kills" Davis spent the last years of his life throwing first round draft picks at speedy receivers, but all they caught for him were paychecks.

There are other ways to draw safeties away from the line and push defenses into a nickle defense, too. Our team just has to start utilizing them more effectively and in such a way that the safeties are more alert to Cam's passing than to his running. 

I believe the conversation we were having yesterday could at least provide a modest improvement purely by making minor adjustments. In 2015 we had variable snap counts and it was pulling teams offsides left and right, not to mention we were able to run the ball. Anyway, that would be the easiest thing to try out rather than fire/change coaches/players/scheme or whatever the genius huddle collective has to suggest.

[Khyber53]

Just now, Peppers90 NC said:

I believe the conversation we were having yesterday could at least provide a modest improvement purely by making minor adjustments. In 2015 we had variable snap counts and it was pulling teams offsides left and right, not to mention we were able to run the ball. Anyway, that would be the easiest thing to try out rather than fire/change coaches/players/scheme or whatever the genius huddle collective has to suggest.

I couldn't agree with you more. Something so simple as not coming to the line with 8 seconds left on the play clock, variable snap counts and not having to tell players where to go again and again could be a massive improvement. Good defenses are out there watching and reading and reacting.

Let's face it, if you are always getting your sh!t together at the last minute and constantly running late it prevents you from getting ahead in life and on the football field.