CMC is not a RB...he is a WR

[Gsam]

Hey Guys,

 

Bronco fan here. I started watching you guys a lot in 15, leading up to our superbowl. I have kept watching you guys since. I like a lot of the guys you have in your organization like Greg O, Kuechly, (sp?) J stew,  etc...

 

I find that sometimes an outsider can bring a different perspective on a team when they are not emotionally invested in them.  As a preface, I come in peace and am not going to flame, its just observations and I hope I dont start a fight with many of my opinions.

 

1) Shula - You have an offense that is bland. There is no imagination in it.  He does ok with the intermediate passing game, he however leaves much to be desired in the short passing game (RB dump offs, screens, bubbles,) they almost never happen as a DESIGNED play and when they do they are executed poorly. You truly have one of the worst coordinators in the league. I read these forums enough to know what I say is not news to you.

 

2) Newton - Amazing player. He has to figure out how to get touch on his short passes though.  He struggles terribly putting a ball in a spot where a RB or WR can catch a ball and not lose speed / momentum.  He does a better job of this in the intermediate and long passing game, but for whatever reason, he struggles the most with the easiest throws that require more touch than strength.    He also needs to stop going for the home run every play. He is so focused on getting it past the sticks that he misses shorter gains that could turn into bigger gains with YAC. He needs to be better about taking what the D gives him.

 

3) McCaffrey - This is the whole reason I posted.  I have watched every game in full since you drafted him and I have to say you guys are not giving him a fair shot and are not setting him up to succeed with how you are using him. He is only being used as a safety valve and plays are not being designed to take advantage of his strengths.  Watch the games again if you want. I would estimate about 20% of the touches he gets are actually designed and the rest of the time they are panic tosses to him to avoid a sack. I wouldn't even call them hot routes. It really hard to make magic out of that when you have no blocking ahead of you and a LB is constantly waiting 5 yards off you for that pass to come.  When you guys have designed plays for him, he has been outstanding executing them. I recall the play last week where it was like 3 yards off goal line and you had a designed play to him in the flat where he caught it and took it in for a score. Easy mode.     As for his running ability, this is not fair at all.  I saw a stat on twitter the other day that said on average your RB's are getting hit 1.5 yards behind the line of scrimmage.   You could put Leveon 'Bell back there and you would get virtually the same results.  J stew and McCafrrey did not forget how to play football, they just have nowhere to go.    I would encourage you guys to be patient and hopefully get a new OC before you judge this kid. I would absolutely love to have a guy like this Denver.  Its kind of funny, I see people saying hes a scat back etc... Its very interesting that one of his closest comps is Jamaal Charles (people also used to consider him too small to be a 3 down RB).  There was a guy named Brian Westbrook who was nearly an identical comp as well.  I would argue at worst you have an upgraded Danny Woodhead and at best you have a Charles caliber player when used properly.  Trucking people is not everything. Being shifty is more important for long term viability of a RB.

 

Anyhow, I am done. I Hope you guys get the OC situation sorted and Cam gets healthy. I do think better days are ahead when G.o. Is back from foot injury. Take care.

[GoobyPls]

41 minutes ago, Gsam said:

Hey Guys,

 

Bronco fan here. I started watching you guys a lot in 15, leading up to our superbowl. I have kept watching you guys since. I like a lot of the guys you have in your organization like Greg O, Kuechly, (sp?) J stew,  etc...

 

I find that sometimes an outsider can bring a different perspective on a team when they are not emotionally invested in them.  As a preface, I come in peace and am not going to flame, its just observations and I hope I dont start a fight with many of my opinions.

 

1) Shula - You have an offense that is bland. There is no imagination in it.  He does ok with the intermediate passing game, he however leaves much to be desired in the short passing game (RB dump offs, screens, bubbles,) they almost never happen as a DESIGNED play and when they do they are executed poorly. You truly have one of the worst coordinators in the league. I read these forums enough to know what I say is not news to you.

 

2) Newton - Amazing player. He has to figure out how to get touch on his short passes though.  He struggles terribly putting a ball in a spot where a RB or WR can catch a ball and not lose speed / momentum.  He does a better job of this in the intermediate and long passing game, but for whatever reason, he struggles the most with the easiest throws that require more touch than strength.    He also needs to stop going for the home run every play. He is so focused on getting it past the sticks that he misses shorter gains that could turn into bigger gains with YAC. He needs to be better about taking what the D gives him.

 

3) McCaffrey - This is the whole reason I posted.  I have watched every game in full since you drafted him and I have to say you guys are not giving him a fair shot and are not setting him up to succeed with how you are using him. He is only being used as a safety valve and plays are not being designed to take advantage of his strengths.  Watch the games again if you want. I would estimate about 20% of the touches he gets are actually designed and the rest of the time they are panic tosses to him to avoid a sack. I wouldn't even call them hot routes. It really hard to make magic out of that when you have no blocking ahead of you and a LB is constantly waiting 5 yards off you for that pass to come.  When you guys have designed plays for him, he has been outstanding executing them. I recall the play last week where it was like 3 yards off goal line and you had a designed play to him in the flat where he caught it and took it in for a score. Easy mode.     As for his running ability, this is not fair at all.  I saw a stat on twitter the other day that said on average your RB's are getting hit 1.5 yards behind the line of scrimmage.   You could put Leveon 'Bell back there and you would get virtually the same results.  J stew and McCafrrey did not forget how to play football, they just have nowhere to go.    I would encourage you guys to be patient and hopefully get a new OC before you judge this kid. I would absolutely love to have a guy like this Denver.  Its kind of funny, I see people saying hes a scat back etc... Its very interesting that one of his closest comps is Jamaal Charles (people also used to consider him too small to be a 3 down RB).  There was a guy named Brian Westbrook who was nearly an identical comp as well.  I would argue at worst you have an upgraded Danny Woodhead and at best you have a Charles caliber player when used properly.  Trucking people is not everything. Being shifty is more important for long term viability of a RB.

 

Anyhow, I am done. I Hope you guys get the OC situation sorted and Cam gets healthy. I do think better days are ahead when G.o. Is back from foot injury. Take care.

Your from Denver, everything you said is nulled

 

I would trade Mccaffrey for Sanders or Thomas in a heartbeat. Btw Mccaffrey wouldn’t do jack sh*t in Denver. 

[Randolph Panther]

13 hours ago, gibran newton said:

Who would you had rathered us pick?

Actually just about anyone.  Probably Lattimore though.  Playing across from Bradberry we would have had a legitimate d backfield.  Heck I would have been fine drafting another defensive end and then drafting Cook in the 2 round. 

[AU-panther]

Did anyone really think he was going to be the next AP? 

I always thought he would be a slot receiver, 3rd down back,  PR/KR type of player.  His hands are actually even  better then I expected.  

Did we overdraft him? maybe

In a vacuum there are players that were available that might have been rated higher on most teams board.  Lattimore was a really good prospect at a high value position, would have been hard for me to pass on.  I'm guilty of buying into the pick based on the fact I felt he had the potential to help change the offense.  Not even from a production standpoint from him but an overall change in scheme that might help Cam.  

Also it is a bit early to decide if he is worth the pick.  Even if he doesn't turn into Marshall Faulk he might have a Julian Edelman type of career.  Also people severely overvalue first round picks.  They act like you can get a Julio Jones type of talent at each spot and history tells us otherwise.

Everyone likes to whine about Cam not having any help but the fact is the organization has made a lot of decisions to try and help them.  Whether or not they were wise decisions is another story.  

Got rid of Steve Smith to help Cam "grow" according to some.

Drafted a tall receiver (KB) with an early pick to help Cam's overthrows.

Traded up for another tall receiver (Funchess).

Overspent on a LT.  Traded up for another linemen.

Spent a top 10 pick on a hybrid player (CMC).

Resigned one of the best TEs in the league.  Have one of the highest paid centers in the league.

You could put Desean Jackson, Julio Jones, Joe Thomas and Le'veon Bell all on this team and I have my doubts our offense was be much different.

What is the one thing the organization hasn't tried to give Cam to be successful?

 

[Darvinsun]

13 hours ago, gibran newton said:

Who would you had rathered us pick?

Oj howard for offense side.

[Woodie]

The problem isn't CMC, it's the way he's being used in the run game (along with our run game design).  He's doing about what was expected and hoped for in the passing game, but in the run game we are trying to use him like JStew.  I think some of you think power running is the only style a "real" RB uses.  It's not.  There are loads of examples of backs whose game was predicated on quickness, speed, and burst that are not lumped with the "scat back" label. 

The difference between them and McCaffrey is that their offenses were designed to get them in space and create creases for them to run through whereas our run scheme is designed for a power runner to go straight up the gut, whether our OL is able to make openings or not.  If the coaches adjusted with McCaffrey it would be one thing, but they don't.  They are using him and Stewart in the exact same manner as runners.  Heck, Barry Sanders in his prime would only be a marginal running back in this offense.  

Sorry Ron, sometimes it is the design and play call and not simply the execution.

[Gsam]

1 minute ago, Woodie said:

The problem isn't CMC, it's the way he's being used in the run game (along with our run game design).  He's doing about what was expected and hoped for in the passing game, but in the run game we are trying to use him like JStew.  I think some of you think power running is the only style a "real" RB uses.  It's not.  There are loads of examples of backs whose game was predicated on quickness, speed, and burst that are not lumped with the "scat back" label. 

The difference between them and McCaffrey is that their offenses were designed to get them in space and create creases for them to run through whereas our run scheme is designed for a power runner to go straight up the gut, whether our OL is able to make openings or not.  If the coaches adjusted with McCaffrey it would be one thing, but they don't.  They are using him and Stewart in the exact same manner as runners.  Heck, Barry Sanders in his prime would only be a marginal running back in this offense.  

Sorry Ron, sometimes it is the design and play call and not simply the execution.

Bingo.

[Darvinsun]

1 hour ago, Gsam said:

Hey Guys,

 

Bronco fan here. I started watching you guys a lot in 15, leading up to our superbowl. I have kept watching you guys since. I like a lot of the guys you have in your organization like Greg O, Kuechly, (sp?) J stew,  etc...

 

I find that sometimes an outsider can bring a different perspective on a team when they are not emotionally invested in them.  As a preface, I come in peace and am not going to flame, its just observations and I hope I dont start a fight with many of my opinions.

 

1) Shula - You have an offense that is bland. There is no imagination in it.  He does ok with the intermediate passing game, he however leaves much to be desired in the short passing game (RB dump offs, screens, bubbles,) they almost never happen as a DESIGNED play and when they do they are executed poorly. You truly have one of the worst coordinators in the league. I read these forums enough to know what I say is not news to you.

 

2) Newton - Amazing player. He has to figure out how to get touch on his short passes though.  He struggles terribly putting a ball in a spot where a RB or WR can catch a ball and not lose speed / momentum.  He does a better job of this in the intermediate and long passing game, but for whatever reason, he struggles the most with the easiest throws that require more touch than strength.    He also needs to stop going for the home run every play. He is so focused on getting it past the sticks that he misses shorter gains that could turn into bigger gains with YAC. He needs to be better about taking what the D gives him.

 

3) McCaffrey - This is the whole reason I posted.  I have watched every game in full since you drafted him and I have to say you guys are not giving him a fair shot and are not setting him up to succeed with how you are using him. He is only being used as a safety valve and plays are not being designed to take advantage of his strengths.  Watch the games again if you want. I would estimate about 20% of the touches he gets are actually designed and the rest of the time they are panic tosses to him to avoid a sack. I wouldn't even call them hot routes. It really hard to make magic out of that when you have no blocking ahead of you and a LB is constantly waiting 5 yards off you for that pass to come.  When you guys have designed plays for him, he has been outstanding executing them. I recall the play last week where it was like 3 yards off goal line and you had a designed play to him in the flat where he caught it and took it in for a score. Easy mode.     As for his running ability, this is not fair at all.  I saw a stat on twitter the other day that said on average your RB's are getting hit 1.5 yards behind the line of scrimmage.   You could put Leveon 'Bell back there and you would get virtually the same results.  J stew and McCafrrey did not forget how to play football, they just have nowhere to go.    I would encourage you guys to be patient and hopefully get a new OC before you judge this kid. I would absolutely love to have a guy like this Denver.  Its kind of funny, I see people saying hes a scat back etc... Its very interesting that one of his closest comps is Jamaal Charles (people also used to consider him too small to be a 3 down RB).  There was a guy named Brian Westbrook who was nearly an identical comp as well.  I would argue at worst you have an upgraded Danny Woodhead and at best you have a Charles caliber player when used properly.  Trucking people is not everything. Being shifty is more important for long term viability of a RB.

 

Anyhow, I am done. I Hope you guys get the OC situation sorted and Cam gets healthy. I do think better days are ahead when G.o. Is back from foot injury. Take care.

So basically an old fart at OC that cant drsign plays worth a flip... exactly what i was saying..  Cam can improve this short throws but i feel the order would have to change as i believe the long riutes have been designed to be the 1st read.. then if pressure gets to him he throws underneath ..short throws work good when there is a time clock but since Cam likes long bombs he just waites too long.

 

[Cpt slay a ho]

He's a luxury pick IMO, prior to the draft our o line situation was still in question with oher being in protocol and hoping kalil would play as well as he did his rookie year. WR wise,with ginn leaving an us yet again signing bottom barrel wr's, we still didn't have anyone who would prevent teams from stacking the box and daring us to pass.I support CMC fully but 8th overall was way too high to draft him, especially without fixing our main issues that have been evident for the last 4 seasons.

[Woodie]

2 hours ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

He's a luxury pick IMO, prior to the draft our o line situation was still in question with oher being in protocol and hoping kalil would play as well as he did his rookie year. WR wise,with ginn leaving an us yet again signing bottom barrel wr's, we still didn't have anyone who would prevent teams from stacking the box and daring us to pass.I support CMC fully but 8th overall was way too high to draft him, especially without fixing our main issues that have been evident for the last 4 seasons.

The problem with this is that there were no WR or OL available that were worth the 8th pick.  Really, the only offensive option other than McCaffrey that would have been a reasonable pick in that spot was OJ Howard.  While he would have been a fine pick, CMC gives us so much flexibility and playmaking ability that he was much more than a luxury pick.  The problem isn't what he has done, but what they are trying to make him do.  If there was a luxury pick, it was Samuel, whom I also feel will be a very good plyer once we get coaches in that know how to use him.

Put McCaffrey on KC, and there wouldn't even be an inkling of a thought that he was a luxury...regardless of the circumstances.  

[electro's horse]

10 minutes ago, Woodie said:

The problem with this is that there were no WR or OL available that were worth the 8th pick. 

No but there were a safety and a tight end worth it.

Also who gives a poo if a player is "worth it" or not. If you have the chance to lock down a position for ten years you do it. You don't worry about what a bunch of people who don't work in the NFL say. 

[Woodie]

4 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

No but there were a safety and a tight end worth it.

Also who gives a poo if a player is "worth it" or not. If you have the chance to lock down a position for ten years you do it. You don't worry about what a bunch of people who don't work in the NFL say. 

Yeah, that Safety sure would have our offense humming right about now (the conversation was about offensive needs).  And I already mentioned the TE.  The problem is systematic at this point.  I don't care if you like CMC or not, but a blind mule can see that they are severely misusing him as a power runner...or that the OL is completely incapable of opening up even the tiniest of holes.

[electro's horse]

good thing we spent that 7th overall pick on a player that needs perfect play calls and perfect execution around him to do a single thing of note

[Cpt slay a ho]

1 hour ago, Woodie said:

The problem with this is that there were no WR or OL available that were worth the 8th pick.  Really, the only offensive option other than McCaffrey that would have been a reasonable pick in that spot was OJ Howard.  While he would have been a fine pick, CMC gives us so much flexibility and playmaking ability that he was much more than a luxury pick.  The problem isn't what he has done, but what they are trying to make him do.  If there was a luxury pick, it was Samuel, whom I also feel will be a very good plyer once we get coaches in that know how to use him.

Put McCaffrey on KC, and there wouldn't even be an inkling of a thought that he was a luxury...regardless of the circumstances.  

That's my point we didn't do enough in fa to warrant picking cmc, I think we were the 27th pass defense last year, so taking lattimore or hooker makes perfect sense at 8. Especially when looking at the Qbs and WRs in our division. KC has a better line then us and hill whose going to keep defenses honest and prevent them from stacking the box, we are having the same issues that limited stew as a runner last year, he's being hit in the backfield, and this is even on toss and stretch plays not just runs up the gut