Leadership, and lack thereof

[TheRed]

2 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

That happens to all great QBs -- injuries happen and they all have the scars to prove it by the time they reach the years that Cam has posted -- but they have to find that something else. Leadership. Reading the defense. That go for broke instinct that plays out. 

Of course you would also be perpetuating this "can't read defenses" myth.

It's like you've got every negative stereotype about black quarterbacks covered.

[TheRed]

52 minutes ago, xav8tor said:

Why do so many Huddle topics devolve into threads with allegations of racism, gender bias, ageism, etc., when at face value, the original topics are perfectly valid points for discussion? Are the same people questioning Cam's leadership not also holding up TD as a shining example? So where's the discrimination in that?

There is no validity in accusing guys of giving half effort, or going Hollywood, or only caring about their paychecks.

Also, it's funny to see fans again talking about TD being a great team first guy when over half the huddle barely 3 months ago was accusing him of only caring about himself and going behind Gettleman's back to get him fired. Oh but now he's a perfect example of leadership again. Sure. Riiight.

[pinkfloyd]

There was a glaring hint about the lack of leadership in the front office in 2009, when the heir apparents to the Panthers, JR's sons, resigned.  The writing was on the wall.... It probably will never change until the Panthers are under different ownership. I feel badly for all the talented players we're wasting.

[xav8tor]

3 minutes ago, TheRed said:

There is no validity in accusing guys of giving half effort, or going Hollywood, or only caring about their paychecks.

Also, it's funny to see fans again talking about TD being a great team first guy when over half the huddle barely 3 months ago was accusing him of only caring about himself and going behind Gettleman's back to get him fired. Oh but now he's a perfect example of leadership again. Sure. Riiight.

Be that as it may, NOTHING you said implies racism, or any other form of discrimination, but rather, laziness, ego, selfishness, and greed. So, even if you're right, by addressing my post, you're wrong.

[TheRed]

5 minutes ago, xav8tor said:

Be that as it may, NOTHING you said implies racism, or any other form of discrimination, but rather, laziness, ego, selfishness, and greed. So, even if you're right, by addressing my post, you're wrong.

How many white quarterbacks in the NFL are accused of lacking leadership, giving half effort, and only caring about money while simultaneously carrying their offense?

[thefuzz]

3 minutes ago, TheRed said:

How many white quarterbacks in the NFL are accused of lacking leadership, giving half effort, and only caring about money while simultaneously carrying their offense?

I know you weren't talking to me, but on this subject, I've called out quite a few.

Big Ben, and Romo come to mind immediately, I've also called out Manning 1 in the past, but he seemed to clean up his act later on.

[AggieLean]

29 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

That's a great point - he does show leadership by playing hurt.  He finished out the season.  He did not bail on the team last year like many on this board wanted him to.

Having said that, this is tackle football.  Doesn't everybody on the field play hurt?  These are very large men that are beating each other up for 60 minutes.  Hard to imagine anyone coming out of that unscathed.

What I'd like to know is what are his practice habits?  Does he set a good example?  Does he spend extra time before or after practice to throw with his receivers?  Does he spend extra time breaking down film and learning?  I don't know the answers to this, but if the answer is "no", that is not a good look from your leader.

 

We don't know too much in detail about any of the players practice habits. All we have is fluff pieces, and the accounts & say of other players to kind of give us a hint what they're like. It's why I question when people on this board say they feel one position room or group is handled better than than the other one; I have to question and find out how do they know? Also, if it's just a "hunch", then what gives them that hunch that ones better than the other? It's probably mostly pure opinion, but I'd like to know where and how these opinions are being formed. Julius Peppers was brought up as a leader on here, but we've got account of players saying that he doesn't really do much talking, and he's a lead by example guy. Well, if Julius is given the leeway of leading by example, then why isn't anyone on the offensive side given that leeway? We have 2 players who have been at the pinnacle of their positions, in both Cam and Olsen. Maybe they lead by example as well, but we don't know.

Also, the answer to a lot of your questions are in previous player interviews. Players have identified who are leaders, but for some reason a lot of you aren't taking them for their word.

[Khyber53]

23 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Of course you would also be perpetuating this "can't read defenses" myth.

It's like you've got every negative stereotype about black quarterbacks covered.

You've played your one note, incorrectly as always, so move along.

 

[xav8tor]

4 minutes ago, TheRed said:

How many white quarterbacks in the NFL are accused of lacking leadership, giving half effort, and only caring about money while simultaneously carrying their offense?

Since Panthers inception, 29. 33 if you count backups.

[AggieLean]

40 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

That's a great point - he does show leadership by playing hurt.  He finished out the season.  He did not bail on the team last year like many on this board wanted him to.

Having said that, this is tackle football.  Doesn't everybody on the field play hurt?  These are very large men that are beating each other up for 60 minutes.  Hard to imagine anyone coming out of that unscathed.

What I'd like to know is what are his practice habits?  Does he set a good example?  Does he spend extra time before or after practice to throw with his receivers?  Does he spend extra time breaking down film and learning?  I don't know the answers to this, but if the answer is "no", that is not a good look from your leader.

 

I skipped over your second paragraph, but I'm going to address it now. Most players are playing hurt, but you have a great deal of players who aren't playing while hurt. I'll give you an example, and by no means am I questioning his leadership, because I've seen it and other players say Luke's a leader, but wasn't Luke cleared to play at the end of last season? I know he probably wanted to play and coaches held him out, but he could have played. Cam's shoulder, an integral part to all QBs, was clearly fugged up, but he still felt as a leader, that he could not look his men in the eyes if he was capable of playing and didn't. He could have fugged his future up by causing further damage, but he went out there. I could say the same for Greg Olsen as well, as he played everyday no matter the bump or bruise or sprain. That's signs of a great leader, and his teammates have said as such.

[TheRed]

6 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I know you weren't talking to me, but on this subject, I've called out quite a few.

Big Ben, and Romo come to mind immediately, I've also called out Manning 1 in the past, but he seemed to clean up his act later on.

 

I see what you're saying, and obviously I'm not arguing they were not criticized, but the tone and the frequency of the criticisms are different in my eyes. Newton is extremely polarizing to begin with, but the dynamics behind the criticisms of Newton always revolve around things like leadership, money, and image, ala, the "fake smile" Nolan Nawrocki sort of language.

 

[DaveThePanther2008]

21 hours ago, thefuzz said:

The void on the offensive side of the ball starts with Ron, then Shula.

I do want to see Cam, Trai, and whomever else step up in that department though, may go a long way.

I agree but when I look at Cam's reaction I can't help but think he is acting to the plays being called.  Knowing that what is being called is so lame.  Somewhere someone has to say... WTF is going on.   Until Rivera opens his damn eyes.   It ain't going to change.  

I have no faith in this offense to beat any team we play going forward.  I thought the Chicago, NYJ and Miami games were as good as in the books but not now.  While our defense will hold them down.  We can't score.  Three games without a TD is totally unacceptable.  That is roughly 40% of our games.

Atlanta, TB and N.O. have too much fire power for us to win a defensive slugfest.  Not going to happen

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, TheRed said:

 

I see what you're saying, and obviously I'm not arguing they were not criticized, but the tone and the frequency of the criticisms are different in my eyes. Newton is extremely polarizing to begin with, but the dynamics behind the criticisms of Newton always revolve around things like leadership, money, and image, ala, the "fake smile" Nolan Nawrocki sort of language.

 

Honestly, I don't care about the talking heads out there, and I certainly don't get my info from them...but I'm willing to agree to a certain point.

I think that every fanbase thinks their guys/guy is getting the short end of the stick.  Every team has a small following screaming for the backup to play.  Every fanbase has fools.  I try my best not to get in the mud with them.

 

Anywell, back to the topic of this team having no leadership nor rudder right now.

 

[xav8tor]

To the extent it falls on the head coach, Houston, we have a problem. Ron said today that everything is just hunky dory on offense.