Leadership, and lack thereof

[Peppers90 NC]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

And for all that's holy, there are enough Cam bashing and Cam praising threads....I'm just trying to have a discussion about the overall leadership structure within the Panthers....which I believe is surely lacking right now.

I know this wont go over well here, be called petty or other things but what has gotten tiresome and I am sure bothers teammates, and I cringed as it was happening in the Eagles game, but how Cam isolates himself when he scores a rushing touchdown. He even pushed teammates away so he could do the stuperman thing in front of the camera. I personally believe that bothers teammates, but thats just me. I dont see him as a leader and Im not sure he is a great teammate, not a bad one though because I know for a fact he has the players back and he supports them. But as far a leader, it is way too easy based on his demeanor to tell when things are not going well and that isnt a trait of a good or great leader.

Flame away huddle, flame away.

[AggieLean]

3 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

And for all that's holy, there are enough Cam bashing and Cam praising threads....I'm just trying to have a discussion about the overall leadership structure within the Panthers....which I believe is surely lacking right now.

Ah calm down. You made a claim and I want you to back it up, that's it. I'm presenting my case as you have presented yours. I see differently than you. I see leaders on the offense, and I'm going to state my opinion as you have yours.

[xav8tor]

Nobody, and I mean nobody, in their right mind would disagree as to whether Luke and TD are leaders. It's clearly evident, especially if you pay attention to the time between snaps, on the sideline, watch Sound Fx clips religiously, and listen to, or read, the comments of other players. Bottom line...few, if any, disagree. 

Now, name someone like that on the offensive side of the ball this year. Where's the consensus? Where's the evidence? The C on the uniform doesn't mean that the player is a true leader. It means that he was chosen to be one. Works like that in most elections, if you get my drift. Leadership comes in many forms, but regardless, it's almost always obvious. Ryan runs the line (his job), Olsen is a model of leadership by example, and Cam does try to shoulder a heavy load, but something is definitely missing.

A lot of the problem lies with the coaches. Although some people aren't cut out for leadership, it can be cultivated, but only after the desired traits are identified. A few want to be leaders and pursue it, but not all do it for the right reasons, or have the right stuff. Others end up being a leader and aren't even quite sure how it happened. Those are often the best ones. It's on the coaches to make it so, or at least facilitate it. Just one more unfortunate example of something that needs to happen, but probably won't. Why? Because the men responsible are failing in their own leadership...all the way to the very top of the organization.

[Still Brooklyn]

54 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

And for all that's holy, there are enough Cam bashing and Cam praising threads....I'm just trying to have a discussion about the overall leadership structure within the Panthers....which I believe is surely lacking right now.

You can't bring up Cam (even in a thread not directly about him) here without hurting the feelings of over half the board that idolize him. He'll forever be perfect in their eyes. No sense in debating them. I'd imagine the same goes for Pats fans and Brady.

[TheRed]

1 hour ago, Khyber53 said:

I think if Cam or Trai were going to stand up, they would have done it by now. One has gone Hollywood and both are just cashing big checks and putting in about 50% effort right now.

Cam carried the offense yesterday. That looked like 50% effort to you? Wow.

[TheRed]

This talk of lack of leadership always leads to some very thinly veiled dicey commentary, and it's always directed at black players.

I'm over being kind to some of you guys that exhibit this sort of casual racism.

[thefuzz]

3 minutes ago, TheRed said:

This talk of lack of leadership always leads to some very thinly veiled dicey commentary, and it's always directed at black players.

I'm over being kind to some of you guys that exhibit this sort of casual racism.

Some of what is in this thread already I don't like.  I didn't start this yesterday as a reactionary post, merely me thinking about it for a while and it finally coming to fruition.

I think the lack of leadership, like always, starts at the very tip top of this org....and trickles all the way down to the end.

[xav8tor]

Why do so many Huddle topics devolve into threads with allegations of racism, gender bias, ageism, etc., when at face value, the original topics are perfectly valid points for discussion? Are the same people questioning Cam's leadership not also holding up TD as a shining example? So where's the discrimination in that?

[TheRed]

9 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Some of what is in this thread already I don't like.  I didn't start this yesterday as a reactionary post, merely me thinking about it for a while and it finally coming to fruition.

I think the lack of leadership, like always, starts at the very tip top of this org....and trickles all the way down to the end.

I wasn't directing that at you. We've had discussions and disagreements, but I never got that vibe from you.

I get what you're saying for the most part. I just cannot get with rhetoric accusing guys or going "hollywood" or just caring about "cashing checks",  or only giving "50 % effort". That's just unnecessary and very ignorant.

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, TheRed said:

I wasn't directing that at you. We've had discussions and disagreements, but I never got that vibe from you.

I get what you're saying for the most part. I just cannot get with rhetoric accusing guys or going "hollywood" or just caring about "cashing checks",  or only giving "50 % effort". That's just unnecessary and very ignorant.

10-4.

 

[AggieLean]

1 hour ago, Khyber53 said:

I understand the man crush thing, it's okay. He is an amazing football player. He's had a rocket arm and great running skills. But we are entering that phase of his career where he doesn't want to be running as much and doesn't have the fluidity he once did to avoid tackles. And the surgery to his shoulder obviously has taken some of his passing ability away. That happens to all great QBs -- injuries happen and they all have the scars to prove it by the time they reach the years that Cam has posted -- but they have to find that something else. Leadership. Reading the defense. That go for broke instinct that plays out. 

I'm not seeing that in Cam right now and I think he is really struggling to find the power in the second act of his career. Sadly he didn't have an offseason to work it out and so we're all having to sit through it. I sure hope he finds his mojo and a way to lead a team not just when they are winning but when they are getting the dog water kicked out of them. 

Right now he's pretty disappointing to his fans. And he's a toothless tiger to the rest of the league.

I missed this. Man crush? I'm a grown a** man, with a wife and kid. There's no "man crush" here, so move around with your passive shot. I've been critical of Cam plenty on these boards. If there's anyone who has a man crush, it's you of old man JR. Difference between me and these other posters is, if you throw a shot at me, I'm going to throw one right back. I'm just as boisterous as a Cam Newton, so don't dish it unless you're prepared for the back and forth.

Lol @ a "go for broke" mentality, and questioning whether he has it or not. Cam was out on that field when his shoulder was messed up playing for his team when he clearly didn't need to be out there. There's a reason his teammates say he's a leader. 

But anyways, it's not just about Cam with me as I'm defending the entire offense. There are leaders out there, and great ones at that. Cam, Olsen, and Kalil are great leaders. There teammates are the ones saying so, and your eye or what you see doesn't override what the actual guys in the trenches are seeing and saying.

[Khyber53]

40 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Cam carried the offense yesterday. That looked like 50% effort to you? Wow.

I wouldn't cheer too much about his carrying after yesterday...

[grimesgoat]

10 minutes ago, AggieLean said:

I missed this. Man crush? I'm a grown a** man, with a wife and kid. There's no "man crush" here, so move around with your passive shot. I've been critical of Cam plenty on these boards. If there's anyone who has a man crush, it's you of old man JR. Difference between me and these other posters is, if you throw a shot at me, I'm going to throw one right back. I'm just as boisterous as a Cam Newton, so don't dish it unless you're prepared for the back and forth.

Lol @ a "go for broke" mentality, and questioning whether he has it or not. Cam was out on that field when his shoulder was messed up playing for his team when he clearly didn't need to be out there. There's a reason his teammates say he's a leader. 

But anyways, it's not just about Cam with me as I'm defending the entire offense. There are leaders out there, and great ones at that. Cam, Olsen, and Kalil are great leaders. There teammates are the ones saying so, and your eye or what you see doesn't override what the actual guys in the trenches are seeing and saying.

That's a great point - he does show leadership by playing hurt.  He finished out the season.  He did not bail on the team last year like many on this board wanted him to.

Having said that, this is tackle football.  Doesn't everybody on the field play hurt?  These are very large men that are beating each other up for 60 minutes.  Hard to imagine anyone coming out of that unscathed.

What I'd like to know is what are his practice habits?  Does he set a good example?  Does he spend extra time before or after practice to throw with his receivers?  Does he spend extra time breaking down film and learning?  I don't know the answers to this, but if the answer is "no", that is not a good look from your leader.

 

[TheRed]

22 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

I wouldn't cheer too much about his carrying after yesterday...

What do you mean by this?