ZOMG! CMC iz uh BUZT!!

[MasterAwesome]

32 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

I always discount PFF. They’re universally pretty poor but absolutely clueless at OL grading. They don’t have the tools to judge OL. They are some JAGs that say “oh hey Carolina can run the ball! 2nd best OL, obs!”  

So in other words...they’re basically like us Huddlers?? Everyone is so quick to dismiss PFF because they’re “clueless”, and yet we’re all so quick to spew our own uninformed observations on every player on the team as fact. “PFF says our o-line is the 2nd best in the NFL?? Well that’s BS cause I’ve watched every game from my couch and we’re clearly very bad...watch this GIF” has no substance or merit.

 

We just had a thread about TJ Lang criticizing PFF because they don’t know the specific calls and roles of the o-line and they’re assigning arbitrary grades to them. Meanwhile we have Coach Igo dissecting a run play and each player’s role/ability and how this is far too complicated and we need to simplify the run game. Yet somehow there’s a clear dichotomy between the perception of the two: PFF is stupid...uninformed...inaccurate...but wow Jeremy is so right and knowledgeable, let’s drown him in pie.

 

That little mini-rant wasn’t directed at you, just at the general hypocrisy and the “we’re so much smarter than all the professional analysts” mentality at the Huddle. Yes I’m not blind, our running game sucks...but the poor execution is excused and it’s all on the playcalling? Ummm....okay....sure? 

[MasterAwesome]

Also, can we stop with these over-the-top cringey titles? No one talks like this...let’s be grown adults.

[Hallin'AllDaeDae]

26 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

So in other words...they’re basically like us Huddlers?? Everyone is so quick to dismiss PFF because they’re “clueless”, and yet we’re all so quick to spew our own uninformed observations on every player on the team as fact. “PFF says our o-line is the 2nd best in the NFL?? Well that’s BS cause I’ve watched every game from my couch and we’re clearly very bad...watch this GIF” has no substance or merit.

 

We just had a thread about TJ Lang criticizing PFF because they don’t know the specific calls and roles of the o-line and they’re assigning arbitrary grades to them. Meanwhile we have Coach Igo dissecting a run play and each player’s role/ability and how this is far too complicated and we need to simplify the run game. Yet somehow there’s a clear dichotomy between the perception of the two: PFF is stupid...uninformed...inaccurate...but wow Jeremy is so right and knowledgeable, let’s drown him in pie.

 

That little mini-rant wasn’t directed at you, just at the general hypocrisy and the “we’re so much smarter than all the professional analysts” mentality at the Huddle. Yes I’m not blind, our running game sucks...but the poor execution is excused and it’s all on the playcalling? Ummm....okay....sure? 

This post is great

[KendrickPanther]

When we are down a touchdown late in a game, I love that he is on the field. I love that he can get us a 1st down and get out of bounds. He got us a 4th down conversion without wasting a timeout.

[JawnyBlaze]

1 hour ago, MasterAwesome said:

So in other words...they’re basically like us Huddlers?? Everyone is so quick to dismiss PFF because they’re “clueless”, and yet we’re all so quick to spew our own uninformed observations on every player on the team as fact. “PFF says our o-line is the 2nd best in the NFL?? Well that’s BS cause I’ve watched every game from my couch and we’re clearly very bad...watch this GIF” has no substance or merit.

 

We just had a thread about TJ Lang criticizing PFF because they don’t know the specific calls and roles of the o-line and they’re assigning arbitrary grades to them. Meanwhile we have Coach Igo dissecting a run play and each player’s role/ability and how this is far too complicated and we need to simplify the run game. Yet somehow there’s a clear dichotomy between the perception of the two: PFF is stupid...uninformed...inaccurate...but wow Jeremy is so right and knowledgeable, let’s drown him in pie.

 

That little mini-rant wasn’t directed at you, just at the general hypocrisy and the “we’re so much smarter than all the professional analysts” mentality at the Huddle. Yes I’m not blind, our running game sucks...but the poor execution is excused and it’s all on the playcalling? Ummm....okay....sure? 

That’s my point. They’re on the same level as us at analyzing 31 other teams. Not lower. Not higher. Sometimes my opinions line up with theirs, sometimes it doesn’t. I sure as hell don’t let their opinions affect my own. I value the average Huddler’s opinion more than theirs probably because we pay more attention to our team. 

I’m a professional analyst myself (ok, my professional field isn’t football...) but calling PFF “professional analysts” is like calling pewtiepie a professional filmmaker.  Sure they technically receive money for it, but it’s an insult to actual professionals to put them in the same boat in my opinion.

 

Disclaimer: I know who pewtiepie is because of my kids and I think South Park had an episode about him. 

[Davis83]

well being as how I am an arm chair OC, HC and QB - hindsight always 20/20

but I did play as a left tackle in a wishbone offense for 4 years, so always am critical of the OL blocking.

What I remember from plays like this is that if you pull an interior lineman, the gap was normally plugged by a FB on a fake dive or a WR in motion. On interior rushes, you pull lineman to gain an angle of block advantage - a kick out - that you can't gain with a lead blocker - if you sent lineman to reach the 2nd level, is was to cut off the backside pursuit - but still a hat on the vacated DL by cross block or motion.

This play has none of that - Trai is actually reaching and blocking into the direction CMC runs - so its ineffective.  Since we never line up with a lead blocker or a TE in motion, there is no player to fill the hole left by the pulling lineman or lineman that is reaching. 

It is the most frustrating thing I see about this read option where the RB is right beside the QB.  The RB gets no forward momentum and with the exception of the QB pulling the ball and running, it effectively dictates the direction of the RB.  A disciplined DE will kill an option unless you have the 3rd option like in a wishbone.

I know what that play was designed to do - but design and execution is horrible and talent lacking.  With a speedy defense, cross blocks and reaches are hard - much better to lead block straight ahead from under center.  One of the best plays for that is for the QB to execute an 270 - pull out left and hand off right.  As soon as the QB pulls out to a side, the D will hedge that way 99% of the time.  that gives your OL the advantage of angle at point of execution.

As for CMC - he is effectively a HB - juke and jive - he simply does not have the size and weight to be a lead RB blowing it up inside (NFL).  He should always be on the wing or in the slot getting a mismatch in the passing game or sweep - or he should have a lead blocker that he can cut off of.

just my 2cents - again armchair OC

 

flame away - I'm thick skinned

 

[Jon Snow]

5 minutes ago, Davis83 said:

well being as how I am an arm chair OC, HC and QB - hindsight always 20/20

but I did play as a left tackle in a wishbone offense for 4 years, so always am critical of the OL blocking.

What I remember from plays like this is that if you pull an interior lineman, the gap was normally plugged by a FB on a fake dive or a WR in motion. On interior rushes, you pull lineman to gain an angle of block advantage - a kick out - that you can't gain with a lead blocker - if you sent lineman to reach the 2nd level, is was to cut off the backside pursuit - but still a hat on the vacated DL by cross block or motion.

This play has none of that - Trai is actually reaching and blocking into the direction CMC runs - so its ineffective.  Since we never line up with a lead blocker or a TE in motion, there is no player to fill the hole left by the pulling lineman or lineman that is reaching. 

It is the most frustrating thing I see about this read option where the RB is right beside the QB.  The RB gets no forward momentum and with the exception of the QB pulling the ball and running, it effectively dictates the direction of the RB.  A disciplined DE will kill an option unless you have the 3rd option like in a wishbone.

I know what that play was designed to do - but design and execution is horrible and talent lacking.  With a speedy defense, cross blocks and reaches are hard - much better to lead block straight ahead from under center.  One of the best plays for that is for the QB to execute an 270 - pull out left and hand off right.  As soon as the QB pulls out to a side, the D will hedge that way 99% of the time.  that gives your OL the advantage of angle at point of execution.

As for CMC - he is effectively a HB - juke and jive - he simply does not have the size and weight to be a lead RB blowing it up inside (NFL).  He should always be on the wing or in the slot getting a mismatch in the passing game or sweep - or he should have a lead blocker that he can cut off of.

just my 2cents - again armchair OC

 

flame away - I'm thick skinned

 

Now imagine how much of an advantage a competent professional NFL defensive coordinate has with this much insight and more.

[Cpt slay a ho]

far from a bust but not currently proving rb's should go top 10

[Rubi]

What's even worse is that the head coach believes it's an effective offensive system. 

[pantherclaw]

He has more receptions then anybody else on the team.

Worst bust in Panther history.

[SeoulPanther]

  Why must he only be either a bust or the best pick in Panther history? Why must people always polarise? I am not a fan of the pick but I can see that he's having a positive affect. I always thought that this was a safe pick. There are loads of guys who based on production in the first 6 games will be disappointing fan-bases more, for example every first round WR. Also, there are riskier characters which won't play out until they've been in the league a little while-regardless of current production. The notion of CMC being a bust is laughable.

 He's obviously going to be at the very worst a highly effective slot receiver and 3rd-down weapon, with special team value. And if we sort out our running game and use him properly there's no reason he can't improve in that department though he doesn't currently look like an every down back.

 I'm pleasantly surprised but not ridiculously smitten with the draft selection especially at 8. At the time I was more bothered that we selected 2 gadget players in the first 2 rounds. But again, I will be very happy to be proven wrong by both CMC and Samuel.

 I'm not hating, but not fawning over him either.

[MasterAwesome]

4 hours ago, JawnyBlaze said:

That’s my point. They’re on the same level as us at analyzing 31 other teams. Not lower. Not higher. Sometimes my opinions line up with theirs, sometimes it doesn’t. I sure as hell don’t let their opinions affect my own. I value the average Huddler’s opinion more than theirs probably because we pay more attention to our team. 

I’m a professional analyst myself (ok, my professional field isn’t football...) but calling PFF “professional analysts” is like calling pewtiepie a professional filmmaker.  Sure they technically receive money for it, but it’s an insult to actual professionals to put them in the same boat in my opinion.

 

Disclaimer: I know who pewtiepie is because of my kids and I think South Park had an episode about him. 

Yeah I was using more the literal definition of professional, not as a testament to their skill or expertise. They still technically are paid to do this which automatically, like it or not, makes their opinion more credible than the average fan sitting on their couch at home.

You seem to be making a few assumptions; I’m not sure what you are basing them off of. Sure I think it’s probable that we pay more attention to our team, generally speaking...but I would think it’s pretty safe to say that whoever is tasked with grading the o-line at PFF is at the very least keying in on the o-line on every single snap when they review the game footage. Does the average fan on the couch go back and rewatch the o-line on every offensive snap? No, because fans have a more broad scope of the game. They’re also more equipped to make a comparative assessment of our o-line since they’re doing the same thing for all other NFL teams.

Their opinion is more credible than the average fan also because they at least have some established metrics/analytics that they’re using in their evaluation which ensures at least a certain degree of standardization and consistency applied to their scoring system. Fans are basing their evaluation strictly on their own observations, which opens the door to a lot of subjectivity and inconsistencies.

Admittedly I’m making some assumptions myself in their procedure, but I gave the rationale behind it which I don’t think is far fetched by any means.

[lightsout]

About to breakdown the OP and explain that this play design, while flawed, isn't terrible. Lot of football talk incoming.

 

So what we see here is trap. This SHOULD'VE been power. Apart from iso, it's the simplest blocking scheme in football. It's commonly referred to as "down, down, kickout". It's THAT simple. 

The issue with the design here is simple. Williams should be down blocking that 3 tech. Instead he's going second level. Norwell is supposed to kick out that 3 tech. It's just too tight of a play to make.

The correct blocking is so much simpler. Power should've been there all game due to the width of the defensive line. The pulling guard kicks the end out, tightend should be going second level, Williams on the 3 tech, Turner going second level. Larsen is blocking back on the 1 tech, and Kalil should just be slowing down the backside end.

If the blocking used was a call to be made by the linemen, they failed. Kalil and Larsen are blocking the same man. If the coaches decided to effectively make this trap and not power, they're idiots. You can't run trap from the gun because it has to hit so tight. 

Look at the gif and imagine if they blocked this like true power. CMC is running for days.

 

[Ezrider1423]

19 hours ago, Dex said:

How on Earth is he a bust he's been one of the only bright spots on our offense... This forum can be unbearable with all of the autism.

I swear i said the same thing lol