The Blame Game - Reviewing all of Jonathan Stewart's runs

[PantherBrew]

Not complicated.  

We have power run blocking lineman that are being asked to block zone plays.  

 

[thefuzz]

Going to be funny when we fire Matsko and keep Shula.....

[Woodie]

7 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

Since 2012 Stewart is averaging 3.8 ypc, that’s a 6 season sample. Are we gonna blame the O-line for the last 6 seasons????

 

Those are Trent Richardson numbers, any other franchise would have kicked Stewart to the curb 3 years ago but not us.

 

Today I saw Fournette make his own lanes out of nothing 

Yes, I blame the OL.  They have been very bad at opening running lanes for years now.  Take away Cam's ability to improvise and power his way for extra yards and our running game is about as anemic as they come. 

Stewart definitely has lost some burst, quickness, and speed, but he would still be an effective runner behind a competent line.  I also think that we are also too predictable in the run game.  Teams know that more times than not, we run right up the gut...particularly on 1st down.  Until we find a way to create some space to run through, our running game will continue to run on fumes.    

[AU-panther]

Didn't Fournette get picked before us?  To listen to people around here it is like we passed on him.

Fournette might turn out to be the best running back in the league over the next 10 years, I said that during the draft. 

I'm just not convinced that he would have made that much of a difference so far this year.  Our problems seem deeper then just who happens to be the running back.  

Personally I think Cam's running has been a crutch for years and gave us the identity of a running team, whereas we struggle to run in traditional ways.  There are other teams that have QBs that scramble at times but how many call as many designed running plays for their QB, power running plays at that.

Calling a running play for Cam is just like other teams running the wildcat.  The blocking numbers change.  Our wildcat QB just happens to be a really good traditional QB also.

[GoobyPls]

4 hours ago, Woodie said:

Yes, I blame the OL.  They have been very bad at opening running lanes for years now.  Take away Cam's ability to improvise and power his way for extra yards and our running game is about as anemic as they come. 

Stewart definitely has lost some burst, quickness, and speed, but he would still be an effective runner behind a competent line.  I also think that we are also too predictable in the run game.  Teams know that more times than not, we run right up the gut...particularly on 1st down.  Until we find a way to create some space to run through, our running game will continue to run on fumes.    

Every RB in the nfl would be competent behind a good line. The good RB make a work no matter what. Stewart isn’t a good RB anymore

[jfra78]

7 hours ago, OriginalPantherDan said:

Shula at work. 

Thats a 2 TE set, thats gotta be @sanjay_rajput

[Woodie]

Stewart still has the vision and power to be more than just "any" back.  So, I do think he can be good.  But like I said, I also see the decline in burst and speed.  So, while I'm not dismissing him as a decent starter, I also recognize that he is more limited now than he was a few years ago.  Which is why I think his ideal role is as a compliment RB rather than a feature.  

But the question is about the OL.  And our OL has been horrendous at run blocking for a few years now.  They cannot open even small holes on a consistent basis, and rarely when we need it most and teams are expecting it.  Cam's running skill has masked some of the deficiencies, but until we get the OL fixed, we're going to struggle at traditional run schemes...no matter who the back is.  Fournette and Kareem Hunt have looked good this year, but if either were on this team, they wouldn't be having anywhere near the success they are now because there is just no room to run.  Our run scheme isn't doing anyone any favors, but when you have offensive linemen that can't beat their man 1on1 consistently, no RB is going to shine.    

[trueblade]

Quote

 I think when I saw the Panthers in training camp, coach Ron Rivera was adamant that Carolina was going to be a power-running team. If that was the case, Carolina would be at least one win better than its 4-2 record right now. But in the last two games, Carolina’s running backs have 35 carries for 37 yards. The Panthers should be using the speed and horizontal misdirection of Curtis Samuel and Christian McCaffrey to create uncertainty on the defensive side of the ball.

Peter King (source: https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/16/nfl-week-6-chiefs-steelers-rankings-peter-king-mmqb)

[csx]

Moose is currently explaining what he thinks is the issue. He's able to explain the issues with design in a way that makes sense. Good to hear from someone who really understands.

His main point.....our OL is lining up in 2pt stances trying to camouflage but are comoromis8ng the run blocking completely.

[lightsout]

Haven't read any of this thread, but I'm responding to OP per gif.

1. This seems like inside zone. Williams seems like he's supposed to probably reach that 3 tech, leaving Turner to chip and go to backer. 3 tech does a good job attacking and not allowing Trai to get off, but that is expected in inside zone. Williams recognizes this, chips and goes to backer himself. Unfortunately, he's reaching out for the linebacker and not attacking and gets defeated. His man makes the play. Down the line, Larsen is supposed to chip the nose and get to LB level as well, but like Williams, he flails with his arms rather than attacking and gets worked as well. Result, nothing there inside because the entire play was reliant on two blocks that simply did not happen. Props to the defense for doing their jobs, but the Wiliams and Larsen did not execute at a high level there.

2. Simple zone stretch blocking. Stew is supposed to read down the line, pick a gap based on the linebackers flowing and hit it up. Larsen gets defeated almost instantaneously. They overloaded the right side of the line, so Kalil is outside of Williams. Dickson and Manhertz are backside. One kicks out the end, the other is likely going out and looking to catch a safety coming down. This creates a natural read for the cutback lane around backside B gap. Huge hole, should've been hit. Unfortunately, Larsen not blocking his man blows this play up entirely, as it is his man that makes the play. Pursuit gets there to finish it off, but this could and should have been a big gain, if not for Larsen.

3. Another zone blocking scheme outside. DIckson is down blocking the end playside. The rest of the line is simply taking a bucket step left and taking first man to cross their face (or, that is how you're supposed to do it. With Manhertz downblocking, Matt Kalil has to pull and lead. Not a bad idea, honestly. It sets up the edge and puts a man out in front of Stew. Also out there is Dickson. So, two guys blocking outside between the front 7 and the corner. Should be an alley. What goes wrong? Larsen is supposed to reach for Norwell's man, Norwell is supposed to head to the backer level and catch pursuit. Problem is, Manhertz does too good a job. The trade off between Norwell and Larsen is bumbled, and that man (#94) ultimately stops this play as he is now free to just run around the outside of Manhertz unopposed. Backside, Trai has no immediate threat inside, so he's taking a step to his inside and getting to backer level as well. Williams scoops the 3 tech. Watch the eyes of Turner, Larsen, and Kalil as they all key on #58. No head on a swivel, no looking for pursuit coming, only looking out in front of the play. This allows several defenders to run directly past them untouched to rally around #94.

4. Another inside zone concept. Actually wasn't blocked terribly across the board with one exception that was pointed out in OP: Matt friggin' Kalil. He gets defeated in the most brutal of ways for a run blocking lineman. If you give so little resistance in your block that you fall down, you have failed and you have been whooped so thoroughly that that play is now ingrained in your head the rest of the game. If you look, truly, EVERYBODY does well. The gap is there. This is a 4 yard MINIMUM gain. But no, Matt Kalil decides to not plant himself and drive his man.

5. This was confusion in the blocking. What seemed to have happened is Dickson was supposed to immediately pick up backside end. Matt Kalil didn't ignore the man as much as he thought that that man was accounted for already, so he was getting to backer. This is supposed to be a designed cutback lane. If that man is picked up, MAYBE this is a nice little gain. I say MAYBE because Norwell is struggling. He didn't get off the ball well and as a result, was unable to get push. To his credit, he didn't really give any ground up either. However, this is a loss for him in terms of his responsibility. Playside didn't do terrible, but not great either. Some good push inside, but Manhertz does not attack his block. This results in him getting in on the eventual tackle as Manhertz first step is inside. When the man you're blocking is outside, and your first step is inside, and it's a run blocking scheme....you lose. 

6. From left to right.....Matt Kalil is catching. Again. What I mean is that he's allowing his block to come to him. In the run game, you attack as an offensive lineman. Get a hat on your man and drive him out. Him catching results in him getting beat as he lets his feet die. Norwell and Larsen again struggle to work with one another. This is supposed to be a chip and go, with Larsen reaching, Norwell chipping and going to backer. Larsen takes a load step (watch his left foot go back instead of to the left). This load step now slows him down as well as it places him in an awkward position of having to bring his right foot in front of his left. and still get his hips around and in front of the 1 tech. Norwell, to his credit, holds up until Larsen fixes himself, but this takes too long and the backside has already been defeated on the play. If Larsen steps correctly and gets his hips around, the gap was there because Norwell had an easy track to the backer. Turner and Williams had a miscommunication. In one of the earlier plays (4 or 5, I think), you can see a similar concept between these two. There are two ways to block that 3 tech. The first is what Larsen and Norwell attempted, chip and go. The other is a fold block. This seemed like Turner was thinking chip and go, Williams was thinking fold. Watch Williams almost run directly into the back of Turner. He takes a hard step inside and leads with his right shoulder as if he's trying to dip in tight off of a kickout block by Turner before realizing that Turner is simply chipping and trying to get to backer. Now, luckily the three tech slips and creates a skirmish there. Unfortunately lost in the skirmish was Manhertz free releasing inside to the safety. This is another play that, with better communication and execution, SHOULD have hit for a nice little gain with the potential for big yardage.

7. This is either a read option where Norwell accidentally blocked the read man before realizing it OR Norwell got lazy. Again, attack the defense with the OL, don't catch them. Having to triple team Cox did not help here, and Manhertz again fails to block the end. Not a bad play design, but terrible execution.

8. Plenty of blame to share here. Larsen spends WAY too much time with Norwell's man. He's got him, get to backer immediately. If he does this, he likely reaches him before he gets downhill and disrupts this play. Matt Kalil and Manhertz both run directly by the same man without blocking him. Again, Kalil's eyes should have been inside first, as that is the most immediate threat once he gets outside. If he does that, he picks up the defender that forces the cutback and this still gets hit for minimal gain because Manhertz just completely ignores a defender coming downhill, but at least it's not Stew having to make chicken salad out of....well, you know.



 

[pantherj]

Play number 1. Daryl Williams 6'6" 330 pounds engages Jordan Hicks 6'1" 236 pounds. Hicks gives Williams a gentle shove and knocks Williams off balance, Hicks isn't moved an inch. Daryl Williams is fuging awful. Watching him play gives me the idea that he is at the point of collapsing from exhaustion and a feather could knock him over. Why is he so tired and weak?  He's actually phantom blocking on that play. He's putting his hands on players, but he's not putting any weight behind it. He's just touching them. I think he's on chemotherapy or something. I can't look at these plays.

[pantherj]

Cut Williams at the end of the season. I can't stand him anymore.

[pantherj]

Play number 2. Timmy Jernigan engages our god fuging awful center Larsen, and Jernigan shoves him to the turf with one arm. Cut Larsen at the end of the season.

[pantherj]

Play number 3. Busted play.