Film Study: Why Butler's Interception Was The Right Read For Cam & Just An Unfortunate Result

[PrimeTimeHeel]

30 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

yeah, except generally quarterbacks don't do that. 

looks like I'm gonna have to spell it out to you. so let's begin.

Looking forward to this

first of all, take a look at the below material:

Of course and unless you are privy to Panther meetings, playbooks, etc you do not know what Cam's exact reads / progressions on that play. 

and now the biggie.

If a passing play only has one read its a terrible play. 3rd and short to medium and you got one read, well good luck being successful most of the time. Generally speaking, a QB is expected to make about 3 reads. 

so, as we can see, passing concepts dictate how many reads a QB will make. any coach/anyone with football experience will attest to the fact this is true. Passing concepts are varied, usually involving 1-3 reads.

I'll take another source that will attest to that:

http://smartfootball.com/quarterbacking/reading-grass-versus-reading-full-coverages-or-keying-specific-pass-defenders

Full field reads are rare and impractical, and there are certainly plenty that involve only 1-2 reads. 

For this particular play, the Panthers ran something known as the slot-fade concept. This design has the outside wide receiver as the decoy. The role of the outside receiver is to hold the wide cornerback and allow the slot for a favorable one-on-one matchup.

More information here:

https://huskerchalktalk.com/2017/08/30/concept-wednesday-slot-fade/

In this version of Slot Fade, Nebraska uses a 6-man protection with the X receiver (usually Stanley Morgan) on a Corner route and the Z receiver (usually De’Mornay Pierson-El) on a delayed breaking inside route.  The running back initially adds to the protection before leaking out late as a check down option.

Nebraska will also run this by moving the Y receiver (tight end) over to the other side and running a Divide route off the Slot Fade to attack a Cover 2 safety.  The Z receiver’s route can be a number of things depending on the cornerback’s leverage, but all of them are short routes designed to get the cornerback to sit early in coverage.  Frequently, it’s a Hitch route.

...

In Cover 1 and Cover 3, your free safety is responsible for the middle third of the field between the hash marks.  This puts him in a bind on two vertical routes, as he must decide which vertical route to assist.  And once he chooses, he typically leaves the other route in a one-on-one match up.

The delayed inside breaking route from the Z receiver is designed to get the cornerback to sit down on the route.

Because the FS has to cover so much ground in support, the QB can use his eyes to direct the free safety to one side of the field before throwing back to the other vertical route.  This is what announcers mean when they discuss QBs controlling safeties with their eyes.  Look early in the pass drop to the X receiver’s route before throwing to the slot WR.  Or look the FS to the slot WR before throwing the Corner route to the X receiver.

________

So, as you can see, the "z receiver" is a decoy; literally not for any other reason than to get the cornerback to sit on the route. We have already established that QBs don't change up the passing concept on the spot because that simply never makes sense. So, the correct read was anyone but Funchess, because there's no game-book out there on the slot-fade concept that tells you to throw to the z receiver.

Here's an example of how it's executed from the Eagles. Same exact play, except the outside corner stayed with his assignment and didn't do what Butler did.

Panthers ran the exact same thing. Funchess is a decoy and not part of the QBs read. Byrd is in the slot designed to beat the press. Patriots are in cover 1 with a single high safety up top.

https://streamable.com/qwpqd

Cam goes for his only read, which is Byrd. He looks left to draw the high safety and then throws the ball, as per his reads require him to do so. Malcolm Butler ad-libbed and made a good play on the ball. Cam still made the right read and decision due to the concept.

As i said, unless you got inside access to the coaches and players you do not know Byrd was Cams only read. 

God help us if we a calling one man reads (a low % fade route at that) on 3rd down. No way I am believing that. 

The only thing you have done her is break down a concept of a play which can have any number of reads / progressions. 

So yes, you are wrong, and no matter how much you say it Cam was never supposed to throw to the z receiver, and i'd guarantee you every other elite NFL qb would do the same. 

No I am not wrong as the only way for me to be wrong is if you know exactly what Cam's progression was for that play which you don't. 

What Cam's reads SHOULD have been was one of those zig routes, then KB's post, then byrds fade. with Funch as a check down.

You are wrong by default as Byrd was doubled covered. So that is never the right read. 

 

[Saca312]

yeah not gonna argue any further. clearly don't know what you're talking about.

i love how it went to "oh but you don't know if that was Cam's only read u aren't part of the coaching staff" as if that makes me unknowledgable about one of the more common plays in football.

i mean it's pretty obvious that's a slot fade concept. not exactly something you'd need inside knowledge to figure out and how it works.

[PrimeTimeHeel]

2 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

yeah not gonna argue any further. clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Coming from the guy who says he knows Cam's reads when he has no access to coaches, meetings, playbooks, players etc. 

Gotcha

[Saca312]

Just now, PrimeTimeHeel said:

Coming from the guy who says he knows Cam's reads when he has no access to coaches, meetings, playbooks, players etc. 

Gotcha

lmfao. 

i dont even know why im arguing with you. 

[PrimeTimeHeel]

Just now, Saca312 said:

lmfao. 

i dont even know why im arguing with you. 

You call this arguing?

lmao

No one is arguing. 

We were discussing football but you threw in the towel. 

[PrimeTimeHeel]

One good note though, i like the design of the play. 

Two quick zigs and the fade make it hard to defend the post. 

Wish Cam would have looked at the zigs then hit the post. 

[Saca312]

1 minute ago, PrimeTimeHeel said:

We were discussing football but you threw in the towel. 

im discussing actual football.

i don't even know what you're discussing right now lmao.

if you actually think you have to be there with the panthers to figure out a common play in football and how it works, you clearly don't know football.

[PrimeTimeHeel]

Just now, Saca312 said:

im discussing actual football.

i don't even know what you're discussing right now lmao.

if you actually think you have to be there with the panthers to figure out a common play in football and how it works, you clearly don't know football.

I am discussing actual football too. 

Only difference is i aint making assumptions. 

If you think every team runs every common play the exact same then you clearly dont know football. 

But his is coming from the guy whp thinks throwing into double coverage is the right read. 

So what can i do lol

[Saca312]

Quote

If a passing play only has one read its a terrible play. 3rd and short to medium and you got one read, well good luck being successful most of the time.

the TE throwback is a common one-read play the 2016 Falcons used a lot. Generally put, sell the defense on the play-action and hit the wide open TE. If the TE isn't wide open, it's a busted play and usually results in a sack/throw OOB. 

Slot fade also relies on one read. One of the two vertical routes are the read, with the QB deciding which match-up he likes best before the snap. Get the receiver on a 1v1 opportunity, look off the high safety to the other vertical route, and hit your guy.

Patriots exploited it well by having Butler ignore the decoy and go for the deep WR. 

I mean this isn't stuff you need the Panthers playbook to see. 

 

[PrimeTimeHeel]

1 minute ago, Saca312 said:

the TE throwback is a common one-read play the Falcons used a lot. Generally put, sell the defense on the play-action and hit the wide open TE.

Slot fade also relies on one read. One of the two vertical routes are the read, with the QB deciding which match-up he likes best before the snap. Get the receiver on a 1v1 opportunity, look off the high safety to the other vertical route, and hit your guy.

Patriots exploited it well by having Butler ignore the decoy and go for the deep WR. 

I mean this isn't stuff you need the Panthers playbook to see. 

 

True, this is used a lot on the goal line. If the TE is double covered the QB usually doesnt throw to him. 

Something we need to point out, just because a play has a wr screen and slot fade doesnt actually mean that play's other routes are not meant to be used. Many route combos can be in the same plays with different progressions. 

That was an empty set. If our only read there on 3rd down was Byrd on one of the lowest % passing plays in football, then well Cam and Shula are dumb as bricks. Not only was it 3rd down, it was 3rd and 3. 

We had this problem all the time with Shula, 3rd and short and we throw deep go / streak / fade routes. Terrible, just horrendous play calling. 

 

[PrimeTimeHeel]

As i said, the fade is the actually the lowest % passing play in football. 33%

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/dvoa-routes-defenses

It should only be used as a means of occupying a S and for the chance for a big play / TD if DB slips or bites on a double move with no S help or by pure speed has 2+ steps on a DB

[JakeDel5674]

4 hours ago, Saca312 said:

the TE throwback is a common one-read play the 2016 Falcons used a lot. Generally put, sell the defense on the play-action and hit the wide open TE. If the TE isn't wide open, it's a busted play and usually results in a sack/throw OOB. 

Slot fade also relies on one read. One of the two vertical routes are the read, with the QB deciding which match-up he likes best before the snap. Get the receiver on a 1v1 opportunity, look off the high safety to the other vertical route, and hit your guy.

Patriots exploited it well by having Butler ignore the decoy and go for the deep WR. 

I mean this isn't stuff you need the Panthers playbook to see. 

 

I'm sorry, I stopped paying attention to your post at page 3.  I actually remembered (I've lurked here a while) you think Lamar Jackson should be the number 1 pick in next years Draft.  When in reality, he'll barely be picked by the 4th round because he's going to get moved to Wide Receiver.  Plus, his accuracy is trash.  Tim Crouch 2.0.   

[Thanatos]

It should have been DPI, Butler cuts off Byrd's route and runs into him to slow him down, then turns back and goes to get the ball.

 

That said, it was not the right read. Two people were on Byrd. It was the right read pre-snap, but once Butler went over there, Cam should have gone somewhere else or tucked and run.

[Thanatos]

6 hours ago, Saca312 said:

sorry if im sounding like an ass, but it's annoying to hear so many people not understand how progressions/reads work, and why not every wide open receiver is part of their read.

You're the one who doesn't understand how progression/reads work, bud.