Is our offense predictable or not?

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, raleigh-panther said:

There is five years of Shula not two games and a history before that

i know what my eyes tell me. I know what I see on the field 

...and if I want a refresher l don't need to go to any web site.    I just need to rewatch super bowl 50,

that game plan alone should have been enough to get his happy ass fired 

 

 

Anything before the present is history which may or not be relevant to now. I say let's see you are convinced nothing has changed without looking. And no offense but would you even know enough to judge if it had changed or not. And again I was at the Superbowl, I sure as hell remember it in vivid detail. That was a great lesson learned. Honestly who didn't think we were going to roll Denver outside of Colorado. We thought we were unbeatable and found out differently. The fact Gettleman spent a second rounder this offseason and 50 million on Kalil is evidence we needed much better tackles. If I remember Correctly Denver got their butt handed to them 2 years earlier after leading the league with a ridiculously good offense. It happens to lots of folks at some point. You move on except folks like you who keep rehashing it endlessly.

[panthers55]

23 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

If you act in real life like you do on this forum, someone at that tailgate is probably gonna put some of your teeth down your throat.

Nah. They know football and we have great convo. Or they don't know it and know they don't. Problem is here where folks like you think you know and don't. I dont know why you would be so pissed about anything. You talk crap all the time. Can you only dish it out but not take it.

[LinvilleGorge]

7 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Nah. They know football and we have great convo. Or they don't know it and know they don't. Problem is here where folks like you think you know and don't. I dont know why you would be so pissed about anything. You talk crap all the time. Can you only dish it out but not take it.

I try to keep some modicum of respect though. Disagreeing is fine, throwing some barbs is fine, but the fact that you always ultimately fall back to nothing but pure condescension shows what you're made of. 

Ultimately, your arguments basically consist of:

"If you don't agree with me, then you don't understand football and you're an idiot. My cherry picked stats matter, your cherry picked stats are irrelevant. If you make a point and I can't refute it, I'll just call it irrelevant because I can't possibly be wrong about anything ever. I like to continually pick opposing viewpoints and fall back on these stances because I enjoy arguing just for the sake of argument."

Acting like Shula is a competent OC is just funny. He has a career of performance that points to the opposite outside of one fluke year. I don't have a problem with Shula's overall offense. My problem is almost entirely his complete lack of ability to adapt during a game.

[panthers55]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I try to keep some modicum of respect though. Disagreeing is fine, throwing some barbs is fine, but the fact that you always ultimately fall back to nothing but pure condescension shows what you're made of. 

Ultimately, your arguments basically consist of:

"If you don't agree with me, then you don't understand football and you're an idiot. My cherry picked stats matter, your cherry picked stats are irrelevant. If you make a point and I can't refute it, I'll just call it irrelevant because I can't possibly be wrong about anything ever. I like to continually pick opposing viewpoints and fall back on these stances because I enjoy arguing just for the sake of argument."

Acting like Shula is a competent OC is just funny. He has a career of performance that points to the opposite outside of one fluke year. I don't have a problem with Shula's overall offense. My problem is almost entirely his complete lack of ability to adapt during a game.

You can call it whatever you want. You have yet to respond to my question and look at the facts. Not.last year, not a decade ago. Not what you think is happening but right now this season by the numbers. And again I will debunk the old adjustment saw too if you would actually pay attention and look at what I post. Of course we adapt. We do it each series. We don't run the same play even though we might run the same formation. Unlesz of course it works and then  why wouldn't we run it again. What you and others see and call failure to adjust is incorrect terminology. We are adjusting but the other team are adjusting to our adjustments. It is a chess match and sometimes we win and sometimes lose. Now if you said we don't adjust fast enough or aren't successful enough when we do adjust, we could have a discussion. But when you say we don't adjust and believe it I put you in the same category as the other casual clueless fans. Anyone with any understanding of the NFL process wouldn't say that and actually believe it. They would clarify themselves after looking at what happens. And please spare me the 2 year old blurb from the Superbowl. You keep pulling it out like gold. It is ancient history and let's say it is true. That has nothing to do with now. Watch the game tomorrow and tell me where we don't adjust. Make sure to be specific and exactly where and when we ran the exact same play at the same down and distance to show we didn't adjust. Otherwise you are describing something but calling it something else. And if it works one time tell me why we wouldn't try it again?

 

[LinvilleGorge]

So, as long as you're not running the exact same play or succession of plays, that counts as adapting in your mind?

Look, if Shula was so good, he wouldn't have 7 mediocre to bad seasons and 1 excellent one.

Your constant talk about how the past doesn't matter is crap. None of us can predict the future so what else can we base our opinions on? Maybe Shula will come out tomorrow and call a brilliant game. I doubt it, but hell, I hope he does.

Seriously, can you honestly explain why our Super Bowl opponent would openly state in disbelief that we didn't switch anything up other than the fact that Shula has a tendency to be predictable?

You seem to take every comment to it's logical extremity. I don't think anyone is saying they can accurately predict every Panthers offensive play but if you watch every Panthers game you have to admit that there are certain circumstances that you pretty much know what's coming and I'm not just talking about 3rd and long or short yardage situations. Shula seems to fall into patterns and he seems to get an idea in his mind of what should work and keeps going back to it even when it repeatedly fails. We kept running stretch running plays against the Bills and they were absolutely stifling them. Finally Stew broke one for about 12 yards. The average of those plays still sucked but I'm sure Shula felt vindicated because it finally worked.

 

[iamhubby1]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

Not only are you correct but the naysayers repeat the same thing over and over even though it is not relevant, years ago, or made up. Like we don't gameplan our offense. How ignorant. Of course we gameplan and we do it for every team trying to find mismatches to exploit. We determine what their defensive tendencies are based on down and distance and plan accordingly. We have different plays for every situation and Cam has studied film to know what will be open based on what the defense shows. The fact it doesn't always work is a testament to defenses gameplanning for us. One of these days I am going to expose the old we can't make adjustments from 1st to 2nd half crap as well. But I hesitate to put in the effort given it won't do any good. I clearly showed by facts that our playcalling is no more predictable than any team but look who actually read it. Few who have posted actually even discussed the information and that is clear.  And the idea they know what is coming is laughable too. On third and 8 for example who doesn't know it is a pass? That doesn't make you predictable unless you know where the ball is going and to who on what route. And I know there is virtually no one who knows the playbook well enough to know what we are running at any one point. So if we take a sack on third and long all of a sudden every knew what we were doing.  Exactly how many running plays work on third and long. It really is comical how the group speak has been repeated long enough they actually believe it. On to the Saints. I have a bunch of folks coming in for a tailgate, should be great.

 

    If you repeat it often enough, and you truly believe it to be true. You can convince yourself of anything.    

[LinvilleGorge]

You two have convinced yourselves that you're the only two posters on this forum who are right and everyone else is crazy. There's a word for that. It's delusional. 

I don't agree with those who think Shula is absolutely terrible. I like a lot of aspects of his offense. I just have a big problem with his in-game play calling. 

But looking at his track record, it's virtually impossible to formulate a legitimate argument that he's been a consistently competent NFL OC. 

[Saca312]

.

[Kevin Greene]

This shyt is hilarious.

Delusional FTW.

[panthers55]

7 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

So, as long as you're not running the exact same play or succession of plays, that counts as adapting in your mind?

Look, if Shula was so good, he wouldn't have 7 mediocre to bad seasons and 1 excellent one.

Your constant talk about how the past doesn't matter is crap. None of us can predict the future so what else can we base our opinions on? Maybe Shula will come out tomorrow and call a brilliant game. I doubt it, but hell, I hope he does.

Seriously, can you honestly explain why our Super Bowl opponent would openly state in disbelief that we didn't switch anything up other than the fact that Shula has a tendency to be predictable?

You seem to take every comment to it's logical extremity. I don't think anyone is saying they can accurately predict every Panthers offensive play but if you watch every Panthers game you have to admit that there are certain circumstances that you pretty much know what's coming and I'm not just talking about 3rd and long or short yardage situations. Shula seems to fall into patterns and he seems to get an idea in his mind of what should work and keeps going back to it even when it repeatedly fails. We kept running stretch running plays against the Bills and they were absolutely stifling them. Finally Stew broke one for about 12 yards. The average of those plays still sucked but I'm sure Shula felt vindicated because it finally worked.

 

Again you clearly don't seem to understand what an adaption is. We aren't going to change our whole gameplan and pull out a new playbook. We aren't going to change the system or what we do that we have installed for that game. No one does. You call the same formation and when the defense thinks you are going to run the same play you give it a new twist or you  change a run to a pass. That is an adjustment. So on these supposed stretch plays around the end, why do you think we run them? It is because of how the defense lines up and the success we have had before or something we watch on film. Now if the pulling guard doesnt get out in front of the play or the defensive  backside help beats their blocker it blows up. So why would you run it again? Because an execution error doesn't mean it was a bad play it meant someone didn't do their job and you talk about it between series, clean it up and run a similar play later. 

As for Shula it hasn't been 7 seasons as OC it has been 4 this is number 5. During his tenure as an OC we are 40-23-1. Sure you will say it is the defense but that is the way we have always built the team and Shula has the best record of any OC here over a 4 year period. Is he competent? Of course he is. Is he great? No. But either has his talent level. He has always needed a good line to run his scheme. Has he had one? Yeah it was decent in 2013 and 2015. And we went 27-4. What about 2014 and 2016? Crappy line, crappy results. Simple. Why didn't he adjust in the Superbowl? Lots of reasons. First time there, their defensive.line and scheme was a bad matchup for what we do. Wade Phillips is one of the best DCs out there. It happens. But you don't a career on one game. But honestly I am done here. If you can't see what is clear, this won't change it. Leaving for the tailgate. Rooting hard for a victory. 

 

[xav8tor]

12 hours ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

    That is an interesting subject. What are the tells they see? I mean, what specifically do they see, that allows them to "Call a Play"? Other than that pesky 1st play of the game run up the A gap with Stewy. How are these people able to "Call a Play"?

 

    Also, what is their success rate? Are they reliable enough to use as a resource? Probably not. But you sure hear about a whole poo ton bunch of folks who seem capable of doing it.

 

    I am smart enough to know that most folks are just trying to make a point about Shula and his play calling. But man, there has to be a better way than claiming to be able to call his plays for him. Because I am pretty sure not a whole lot of folks are going to believe these people actually possess such a gift.

Somewhere around here I posted a link to a YouTube video showing how it's done at the highest level. Google search for: Bill Belichick Tom Brady Ed Reed Video, and take a peek behind the magic curtain. I can't see Shula or Rivera and Cam having that conversation, but I'd love to be wrong. Success rate of their prognostication? Don't know, but I know how many rings they have.

[redbuddha]

So what are our possible OC options college or pro for the future. 

I would take Kevin Sumlin, HC Texas A&M

Gus Mahlzahn, HC Auburn