Offenses Last Night

[Moorgan]

The way I understand it is that release time specifically is the beginning of the throwing motion to the release of the ball. The Golden Calf of Bristol had a long one and I guess Goff has a short one. It has nothing to do with anything else like WR routes, when the ball was snapped, holding on to the ball or quick decisions or anything else. It's literally a measure of the throwing motion of a quarterback.

[Hogmolliesmaht]

1 minute ago, Moorgan said:

The way I understand it is that release time specifically is the beginning of the throwing motion to the release of the ball. The Golden Calf of Bristol had a long one and I guess Goff has a short one. It has nothing to do with anything else like WR routes, when the ball was snapped, holding on to the ball or quick decisions or anything else. It's literally a measure of the throwing motion of a quarterback.

Yeah, that's how I have always understood it too.

[gmonjimbo]

10 minutes ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

Apparently, we're talking about two different things. Every time I've heard them talk about a QB's release time in a game, they were talking about how long it takes for the ball to leave the hand AFTER they decide to throw it, not how long it takes from the time the ball is snapped.

Yes. Cam has one of the fastest releases at around .33 seconds I believe in terms of releasing the ball from his hands. What this Next Gen stats takes into account  how much time elapses after the ball is snapped to when QB releases the ball. Cam currently is at 2.76 seconds

[panthers55]

6 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Hard to get to check downs when you're running for your life immediately after the snap because your LT completely whiffed. 

We very rarely call plays where first option is quick and short. 

Go back and look at what happens when plays are just starting. There are numerous times when players flash early and Cam isn't even looking. He really has to be more consistent  throwing receivers open and throwing to spots instead of waiting until they are open and whipping the ball in. What people think is in rhythm is actually in sync with receivers throwing to spots and throwing on timing routes.

[Moorgan]

3 minutes ago, stbugs said:

There were outlets a bit last year as well, definitely not as much with CMC. The slow developing routes are certainly not gone. Watch some of the overheads of when Cam gets hit and there are lots of guys going really deep along with 1 outlet. It's definitely still there.

One thing that really stuck with me was a comment Collinsworth made when Goff almost got sacked and pressure made him throw a bad pass. Collinsworth talked about how he went back further with the pressure and didn't step up. He mentioned how the tackles didn't have the chance to keep sending the rushers back and have the QB step up. He mentioned Brady and Rodgers as guys who step up in the pocket well and it really is one of the things I don't like about the deep drops and long routes. Cam always goes back. Many sacks he takes aren't 5 or 6 yard losses, they're 9-12 yard losses. Kind of like the playing to strengths message where it always seems like we put Cam (and some of it may be him not stepping up) in the spot where speed rushers will be. We know what our OT weaknesses are and yet, it just seems like the speed rushers literally run right into Cam. I posted about this a few times, but Collinsworth was the same announcer who did a segment on how good Remmers looked in the first half of week 1 last year at Denver. The segment had Remmers getting help and Cam doing short drops and voila up 17-7 at half. We all know how we adjusted in the second half.

I said the same thing last night when Collinsworth said that. Cam moves backwards in the pocket unnecessarily...it seems. Not sure how often because I don't watch tape but it seems that way to me.

[panthers55]

5 minutes ago, stbugs said:

There were outlets a bit last year as well, definitely not as much with CMC. The slow developing routes are certainly not gone. Watch some of the overheads of when Cam gets hit and there are lots of guys going really deep along with 1 outlet. It's definitely still there.

One thing that really stuck with me was a comment Collinsworth made when Goff almost got sacked and pressure made him throw a bad pass. Collinsworth talked about how he went back further with the pressure and didn't step up. He mentioned how the tackles didn't have the chance to keep sending the rushers back and have the QB step up. He mentioned Brady and Rodgers as guys who step up in the pocket well and it really is one of the things I don't like about the deep drops and long routes. Cam always goes back. Many sacks he takes aren't 5 or 6 yard losses, they're 9-12 yard losses. Kind of like the playing to strengths message where it always seems like we put Cam (and some of it may be him not stepping up) in the spot where speed rushers will be. We know what our OT weaknesses are and yet, it just seems like the speed rushers literally run right into Cam. I posted about this a few times, but Collinsworth was the same announcer who did a segment on how good Remmers looked in the first half of week 1 last year at Denver. The segment had Remmers getting help and Cam doing short drops and voila up 17-7 at half. We all know how we adjusted in the second half.

Agree on the failing to step up which is a primary strategy against us , blitz up the A gaps and when Cam turns his back and bails, loop around the ends and sack him for a big loss.

And you are right with a vertical passing attack we will always have routes down the field. My point was there are options available either early in the routes  or dumpoffs that Cam can easily take so the old saw that Cam can't help taking a sack due to bad playcalling just isn't true.

[LinvilleGorge]

11 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Go back and look at what happens when plays are just starting. There are numerous times when players flash early and Cam isn't even looking. He really has to be more consistent  throwing receivers open and throwing to spots instead of waiting until they are open and whipping the ball in. What people think is in rhythm is actually in sync with receivers throwing to spots and throwing on timing routes.

I agree that Cam holds the ball too long at times, but there's still a play calling focus on pushing the ball downfield. Not as bad as years past, but it's still there. Like Gettleman frustratedly said, "evolution" isn't really the best word to describe the changes in our offense. 

[Doc Holiday]

1 hour ago, uncfan888 said:

We held that 39 point San Fran offense to 3 points. So I was happy knowing that

Yup, those were my thoughts too!

IRTT: about the panthers offense many on here stated that it may take Cam a while to knock off the rust, I said it would probably take 3-4 weeks before the season even started and I have no reason to believe this has changed.

I also predicted that there may be serious offensive struggles against the bills last week.(thread about my concerns)

so as far as Cam and the play calling goes I'm actually not that concerned. Remember it's easy to call a play dumb when it doesn't work. Lol

I am far more concerned at the moment about the Khalil brothers. Their play will be a bigger deciding factor over the course of the season than Cam. To the point where I'd be almost willing to see if we could get Joe Thomas from the Browns(they did shop him for a bit during he offseason).  Matt Khalil has not impressed to date and may even be a down grade at this point.

[panthers55]

2 minutes ago, stbugs said:

I just wish we had a plan to attack that. It just seems like when a D gets our number we have 0 we can do. Even in 2015 it got that way at times when we couldn't close games out. We literally had 3 and outs for a quarter as the other team came back. 

I think we are trying to do something to combat it but why won't Cam just throw it away more often. We get sacks and end up in third and long. What coordinator has consistent plays for that. We still get too many holding penalties which are drive killers. Couple that with a sack and it is punt time.  

[Hogmolliesmaht]

1 hour ago, gmonjimbo said:

Yes. Cam has one of the fastest releases at around .33 seconds I believe in terms of releasing the ball from his hands. What this Next Gen stats takes into account  how much time elapses after the ball is snapped to when QB releases the ball. Cam currently is at 2.76 seconds

Both of those are pretty good and they both point to the fact that our WR's are  getting open quickly and a good number of plays, which means that our offense stacks up pretty well. The only thing missing is the TD's and they were there to be had last week if the players execute the offense correctly.

[usmcpanthers]

Lmao this thread, too poo teams scored alot of points for each other, big whoop. I cant believe you guys are wishing  to for high scoring games.  We have had those games before and will ahve them again someday. I prefer to keep our defense. Even thought we dont have back to back winning seasons, we have had alot of success. The rams havent done anything since the greatest show on turf, and san fran only flashed with Harbaugh. Both those teams have been bottom dwellers for 4-5 years. Ill take our franchise any day over theirs in recent history.

[Salisburysean98]

9 hours ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

No it doesn't. Release time is 100% on the QB. Have you not ever seen them measure it in other games with other QB's? The only requirement is that it's a pass.

Yeah agreed, release time has ZERO to do with how long it takes Cam to get rid of the ball. It's all about how long it takes Cam to complete his throwing motion. From the start of throwing motion to when the ball leaves his fingertips. 

[Carolina Cajun]

We thought by giving Shula a dose of radiation he might be able to evolve into a super-coach...instead he's just turned into a terminal tumor.

[Fright]

Team can't score points when the QB can't make the easy layups. Our point totals should be a bit higher if the layups were made... Hope it's just rust....