Changing the Launch Point

[tiger7_88]

1 minute ago, Khyber53 said:

We sure have been to the playoffs and the Superb Owl a lot more than one would expect if those guys are the chimps you think they are.

In 2010, Auburn would have been a 6-7 win team max without (fill in the blank).

Hint:

et. al. ad infinitum

Yeah... that "Let your 250 QB continually get beat all to hell to save my job" power running game of Rivera/Shula sure is genius.

[grimesgoat]

33 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

I think we need to change the snap count.  Always going on 1 second gives the opposing defense a great advantage

I've heard this often.  Is the Defense instructed to look at the ball or the clock?  Can't look at both - especially at home where the play clock is shown on the upper deck.  Are there any former D-linemen that can weigh in?

[EightyNine]

One of the problems is that Cam on 3rd and long really wants to get the first down, and he needs to be more willing to get it off quicker and see if a guy can get some YAC for a first down.  He may not get the first down a lot of the time, but its better than a sack or taking a big hit and it all adds up in the end as hidden yardage and also plays in the field position battle (Also, he shouldn't ever take sacks that move us out of FG range).  This is one way he could improve his completion percentage too.   Right now, both Cam and Shula can do better.  They've both made some mistakes.  We have people on this site that watch a good amount of coaches film, and i'm curious to know how often Cam is holding onto the ball and getting pressured when he had options to gain a few yards and punt (or possibly get a first down).  This might tell us how much Shula is at fault.  I will say that this has been a problem for too long and if Cam still isn't  finding his hot receiver soon enough, then its the coaches fault for not demanding that out of him.  This is also why we struggle when we can't run the ball.  

Rivera made a comment after the last game saying "discretion is the better part of valor". I'm not sure if he's made comments like that before, but hopefully they are making that a point of emphasis.

[panthers55]

I love these simple posts about how to fix the offense. Like throw it short and give Cam dumpoffs. We are throwing it short and there are typically dumpoffs opportunities on every passing play but Cam and the running back determine that based on the protections they call and the back for example chipping the rushing defender and then sliding out to the flat for the dumpoff. Obviously sometimes the short pass is designed from the start like on a screen. If Cam sees a blitz he can keep the back in, send him out for a dumpoff, slide line protection that way, change the play to run away from pressure, etc. Then there is the whole idea about hot reads based on the receiver and the quarterback seeing a blitz and breaking off a double move route and going with a quick slant into the area where the blitzer just vacated, etc. Then there are route tree progressions where the short pass or dumpoff may be the third option if receiver A is doubled or receiver B can't get separation. So many variations that are already built into the offense that these threads and this collective wisdom is really laughable at times.

[panthers55]

Let's just roll Cam out someone says....  Well let's make sure he can throw on the run which my observations suggest is not easy for him. He seems to sail most of his throws high when his feet aren't set. Plus how many times do his linemen expect him to be in one spot and he get sacked because he runs backwards right into the sack instead of stepping up. I would rather he stay in the pocket and slide one way or the other and face the blitz instead of turning his back away from pressure which is the opposite of what he is being taught. That way he might see the wide open receiver in the flat or at least can throw it away instead of taking a sack and putting us out of field goal range. 

[TheBiggerCat]

1 hour ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

As most of you know, I am not a Shula hater but the one thing I would love to see from the offense is to change up Cam's launch point. I would like to see more shorter drops from under center and more bootleg/rollouts. It just looks me me like defenses know exactly where he's going to be on every pass play and they're just teeing off and trying to beat the tackles to that spot. What say you, amateur OC's?

I would say we have a amateur OC already calling the plays. So what I say doesnt matter much

[EightyNine]

7 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

I love these simple posts about how to fix the offense. Like throw it short and give Cam dumpoffs. We are throwing it short and there are typically dumpoffs opportunities on every passing play but Cam and the running back determine that based on the protections they call and the back for example chipping the rushing defender and then sliding out to the flat for the dumpoff. Obviously sometimes the short pass is designed from the start like on a screen. If Cam see a blitz he can keep the back in, send him out for a dumpoff, slide line protection that way, change the play to run away from pressure, etc. Then there is the whole idea about hot reads based on the receiver and the quarterback seeing a blitz and breaking off a double move route and going with a quick slant into the area where the blitzer just vacated, etc. Then there are route tree progressions where the short pass or dumpoff may be the third option if receiver A is doubled or receiver B can't get separation. So many variations that are already built into to the offense that these threads and this collective wisdom is really laughable at times.

Not everything has to be super complicated.  Don't you think that Cam needs to find his hot receiver quicker when we go through stretches of the game where our offense stalls and the pass rush keeps getting to Cam? Especially with our defense.. we don't have to light up the score board, but lets try to not move backwards and take negative plays.

[imminent rogaine]

1 hour ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

As most of you know, I am not a Shula hater but the one thing I would love to see from the offense is to change up Cam's launch point. I would like to see more shorter drops from under center and more bootleg/rollouts. It just looks me me like defenses know exactly where he's going to be on every pass play and they're just teeing off and trying to beat the tackles to that spot. What say you, amateur OC's?

Cam's skills translate well to a traditional play action offense. I've been asking for it for years: let him fake the handoff,  boot-leg and assess the field, this gets him out of the congestion of our weak line, lets our shitty route combos develop, and lets him read the field for opportunities to take off with the ball. The read option BS that we've been doing just wastes valuable post-snap time where Cam could be moving away from pressure or setting his feet. He is contantly rushing his movements and throws because the pointless fake handoffs right after the snap.

Garbage offensive system. Garbage offensive coordinator.

[ladypanther]

1 hour ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

As most of you know, I am not a Shula hater but the one thing I would love to see from the offense is to change up Cam's launch point. I would like to see more shorter drops from under center and more bootleg/rollouts. It just looks me me like defenses know exactly where he's going to be on every pass play and they're just teeing off and trying to beat the tackles to that spot. What say you, amateur OC's?

 

1 hour ago, Khyber53 said:

 

Roll outs, boot legs, sliding pockets and a designed run or two will do wonders. But then again, I don't get a report from the Panthers' physical training team each day. Maybe this is all he can do right now.

 

I think there was 1 designed roll out against Buffalo and Cam completed the pass.  I was surprised we did not see it again.  With all these sacks...offense needs to mix things up a bit.  Also I would like to see more no huddle...it seems to do Cam well to have time to see the D and make adjustments.  He gets in a good rhythm. Where has that been?

[joemac]

2 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Let's just roll Cam out someone says....  Well let's make sure he can throw on the run which my observations suggest is not easy for him. He seems to sail most of his throws high when his feet aren't set. Plus how many times do his linemen expect him to be in one spot and he get sacked because he runs backwards right into the sack instead of stepping up. I would rather he stay in the pocket and slide one way or the other and face the blitz instead of turning his back away from pressure which is the opposite of what he is being taught. That way he might see the wide open receiver in the flat or at least can throw it away instead of taking a sack and putting us out of field goal range. 

Cams accuracy on the run is not good at all, I don't know where people are getting that from. For the past 2 seasons he's had enough trouble being accurate in the pocket, much less on the run. You're right,  Everytime he misses, it's high and away...do to poor footwork, and his leading shoulder flying open too quickly.

It's maddening too, because on one play he will fire an absolute laser 30 yards into the tightest window, then the next play throw 10 yards over the head of the receiver 5 yards away. 

It's all about mechanics, mechanics, mechanics. I think for the most part, when Cam can let it rip and throw it as hard as he can, he's very accurate. Ask him to put any touch on the ball whatsoever, and it's a crap shoot. I understand that though, I was a pitcher all the way thru college, and I could throw strikes as hard as I could all day long, then say I get a ground ball back to me, I very well could overthrow first base by 10 feet. It's very difficult to switch up like that...and I think Cam suffers greatly on his accuracy on shorter touch passes because of it. Also probably why we rarely see fades on the red zone even though we have the biggest set of WRs in the NFL.

[Khyber53]

41 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

In 2010, Auburn would have been a 6-7 win team max without (fill in the blank).

Hint:

et. al. ad infinitum

Yeah... that "Let your 250 QB continually get beat all to hell to save my job" power running game of Rivera/Shula sure is genius.

I didn't take Cam out of the equation one bit, as you seem to be implying here. I'm saying Shula built a program for Cam and is evolving it as the player grows. I do, however, think that taking away Cam's gift for mobility in an effort to shield him is actually detrimental to both his play quality and his long term health. His size does shield him from some damage, but he was blessed with an unearthly amount of agility for a man his size and that is an even bigger part of his armor.

 

[Snake]

Like everything it's not just one thing. Cam definitely needs to get the ball out of his hands. A 5 yard play is sometimes a good thing. Shula on the flip side needs to give Cam and the center more time at the line to adjust. Those two things there would make a huge difference. 

[Khyber53]

3 minutes ago, ladypanther said:

 

He gets in a good rhythm. Where has that been?

And that was the thought that kept coming into my head for the last two games. Cam isn't getting into a rhythm. When he is on, Cam can dictate how the entire game is going to go. He just seems out of step here of lates. I think more no huddle and more designed mobility is what he needs -- free the man up a bit to play his game.

[joemac]

1 minute ago, Khyber53 said:

I didn't take Cam out of the equation one bit, as you seem to be implying here. I'm saying Shula built a program for Cam and is evolving it as the player grows. I do, however, think that taking away Cam's gift for mobility in an effort to shield him is actually detrimental to both his play quality and his long term health. His size does shield him from some damage, but he was blessed with an unearthly amount of agility for a man his size and that is an even bigger part of his armor.

 

If we're all being honest with ourselves, Cam hasn't been that runner for a while now. When was the last time he broke off a giant run like in any one of those gifs? The beating he's taken over the past 6 years has taken a big toll on his agility and quickness, IMO.