Shula unrest

[panthers55]

33 minutes ago, OldNorthPowell said:

Again 90% of 2015 was the great defense, and when Denver showed up with no turnovers and playing great defense we disappeared. It has been the case ever since. The play that highlights how stupid Shula's play calling is was last Sunday when on 2nd and 1 he tossed it out to Stewart for a loss. Why not run it up the middle, and get the 1 yard to keep the chains going? It is stuff like this, the wasting of timeouts/snapping at the last second, and not being able to adjust his game plan that has people like me complaining. Again it is my opinion, but it is not without facts to back it up.

BS. The offense was very good all year long in 2015 with arguably the worst wide receiver corps in the league . Denver had been to the Super Bowl two years earlier and were not star struck like we were. The fact that their defense was well prepared and beat us that game was painful but hardly negated all we did well. The following game against Denver at their house we were a missed field goal from beating them which would have turned our season around.

 Cherry picking one play from the dozens we ran last week hardly damning information and honestly there aren't 6 people on this site who could evaluate our offensive scheme or would know what we did right or wrong or whether we made adjustments or not. Most of you just parrot what others say without a clue what you are talking about. So yeah the overwhelming majority make statements with no facts or clues about what they are talking about. And feel free to include yourself in that majority if you think any of what you said was conclusive.

[pantherphan96]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

Maybe Shula defenders are worse than Shula bashers according to the basher's perspective. But I find the constantly bashing  of Shula with few if any facts to back it up really annoying. 

just as i find the shula defending to consist entirely of "look at 2015!" and "its Cams fault" utterly inane. I thought Shula did a good job week 1 vs the 49ers but his game planning short circuited at least 2 drives last Sunday, and countless others in his tenure as OC. There's a reason he hasn't gotten any looks from other teams despite having the #1 offense in 2015, while our DC have generated plenty of interest around the league as potential HC's.

[panthers55]

4 minutes ago, pantherphan96 said:

just as i find the shula defending to consist entirely of "look at 2015!" and "its Cams fault" utterly inane. I thought Shula did a good job week 1 vs the 49ers but his game planning short circuited at least 2 drives last Sunday, and countless others in his tenure as OC. There's a reason he hasn't gotten any looks from other teams despite having the #1 offense in 2015, while our DC have generated plenty of interest around the league as potential HC's.

Clearly you aren't paying attention then. Yes 2015 was a good year but Shula has done a lot of other things right along the way. I just get tired of trying to explain anything to people looking for the negative and constantly criticizing who aren't open to a real discussion.  The argument about not getting a head coaching job is stupid exhibit A. The job of offensive coordinator and head coach are very different and require different skills. So getting interviews or not getting them is hardly conclusive evidence they aren't good at their current coordinator role. It means they interviewed well and have the potential to be a head coach. Then again guys like Chud lasted one year as HC and got fired. How is he doing at Indy so far this year? 

[pantherphan96]

6 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Clearly you aren't paying attention then. Yes 2015 was a good year but Shula has done a lot of other things right along the way. I just get tired of trying to explain anything to people looking for the negative and constantly criticizing who aren't open to a real discussion.  The argument about not getting a head coaching job is stupid exhibit A. The job of offensive coordinator and head coach are very different and require different skills. So getting interviews or not getting them is hardly conclusive evidence they aren't good at their current coordinator role. It means they interviewed well and have the potential to be a head coach. Then again guys like Chud lasted one year as HC and got fired. How is he doing at Indy so far this year? 

Terrible example: Chud getting fired was criticized by the media, the fans, and the players. Just another example of the dysfunction of Jimmy Haslem and the Browns franchise. Shula not getting any attention (IMO) just shows that NFL executives are aware that this offense goes as far as Cam can carry it. 

[RetiredCollegeCoach]

panthers55 is one of the few guys at this web forum with a clue about football.

[panthers55]

1 minute ago, pantherphan96 said:

Terrible example: Chud getting fired was criticized by the media, the fans, and the players. Just another example of the dysfunction of Jimmy Haslem and the Browns franchise. Shula not getting any attention (IMO) just shows that NFL executives are aware that this offense goes as far as Cam can carry it. 

Agree that Cleveland situation is crazy but used Chud because he was here and actually was a pretty poor head coach.

[Cookie Lyon]

7 hours ago, beastson said:

Lol were you here during the 2013 playoffs where Shula called 4 straight up the middle goaline runs and then did the same thing again later on in the 2nd quarter?

Did you not see the Superbowl where Shula gave no help to his offensive tackles against the best DE tandem in the NFL that year? Did you not see even in the 2nd half, he still gave no help to them

Did you not hear the Broncos D said we ran exactly what they saw on film. We didn't change anything for the SB, as if it was another regular season game

Did you not see how in the 1st game last season in the 1st half, Cam was doing 3 step drops and getting the ball out much faster and it was working great, only to revert back to 5 step drops in the 2nd half that got his ass kicked. I have yet to see Cam do a 3 step drop play since and we're supposed to be getting the ball out faster

Shula been here 5 years and all yall do is keep talking about one season. Next year yall going to be talking about that same season lol

THIS.

[KendrickPanther]

Thread title made me think someone actually important was publicly criticizing Shula. Who cares what PantherBoy02 has to say... We already have threads full of that.

[Chimera]

Ever since our one loss in 2015, teams have used the same strategy to defeat us. 

In the 11 losses since then, have you seen changes in our game plan? Or are we doing the same thing, hoping for a different result?

Like I said a few pages ago, Shula has his strengths. Whoever said his offense is simple... just stop. His offense is quite complex. 

But even greater than his strengths is his unwillingness or inability to adjust. We're doing the same poo and we WILL see the same results. 

[panthers55]

28 minutes ago, Chimera said:

Ever since our one loss in 2015, teams have used the same strategy to defeat us. 

In the 11 losses since then, have you seen changes in our game plan? Or are we doing the same thing, hoping for a different result?

Like I said a few pages ago, Shula has his strengths. Whoever said his offense is simple... just stop. His offense is quite complex. 

But even greater than his strengths is his unwillingness or inability to adjust. We're doing the same poo and we WILL see the same results. 

This is a perfect example of what I was talking about earlier. We see the same things but come to very different conclusions based on knowledge. For example you say we had the same gameplan for 11 games last year. That is ridiculous and no one who knew even a modicum of how teams prepare for another would say we didnt change our gameplan for each opponent. Hours and hours of film work lead to hours of matching plays to other teams tendencies and looks in certain down and distances. They aren't just pulling plays out of the air. Everything is scripted and yet fluid based on what you are setting up for later, what is working, and where you can exploit mismatches. It is a chess game that is constantly changing. So please stop with the amateurish complaint he doesn't adjust and get more specific by saying his adjustments to outside wide 9 pressure are ineffective. And then tell what he did wrong. Then I will give you some credence and we can have a discussion. Otherwise stop the parroted complaints that have no root in any substance.

[rmoneyg35]

Our runningbacks YPC over the past few years haven't been good at all. I thought it was Stewart at first, then our offense line but now I think it's Shula and his predictable play calling which gives teams a heads up to stop our runs before we can even get to the line of scrimmage.

 

the article makes a great point. At 2&1 we should of threw a pass since all plays are opened up at a 2nd and 1 but Shula uses our power back to run towards the outside for a loss. We have CMC who is suited for running to the outside, not Stewart who is slow.

 

If Shula can't figure out something as simple as this by now he needs to go. It's one thing to have conservative play calling but it's a complete other when you have predictable play calling.

 

Shula not only has years of experience and basically lived football his whole life with his father but also is being paid to do this as his job. He has all the time and money to figure this kind problem out yet he never has.

 

Now I have never been on the fire Shula train and usually stand up for him but I feel I can't anymore.

 

sure Cam and the offensive line has their problems as well but a good offensive coordinator can adapt his game plan to his players. So blaming the players is an excuse.

If cam has issues throwing certain passes then you plan so he doesn't have to throw that pass.

 

if pass protection is bad and your going up against a top defensive line then you have tight ends and running backs help block while throwing short passes to prevent the D from having enough time to get to the QB.

 

does Shula do that? No he didn't. We drafted CMC for this purpose. We must start using CMC properly or else.

 

now I know we could end up with a top offense by seasons end. In 2015 we started out slow offensively, so panicking now isn't smart. 

[Castavar]

If anybody wants a good example of how a coach can change the whole landscape of your offense, just look at the Rams. Last year with 8-8 Fisher, they looked like they couldn't score on a college defense. Couldn't even use Gurley right. Sean McVay comes in and it's like night and day. Has Goff looking like a legit starting QB (also helped Cousins immensely), has Gurley with a huge bounce back year, etc. Good offensive minded coaches can make a mediocre unit look a hell of a lot better than they really are, just like a bad OC can make a great unit look like utter trash. There is no doubt in my mind that if we actually hired a legit OC, this offense would be downright lethal with the weapons we have.

[heel31ok]

in the long run there are other people out there with a better upside than shula...so when do you pull the trigger?

[Chimera]

6 hours ago, panthers55 said:

This is a perfect example of what I was talking about earlier. We see the same things but come to very different conclusions based on knowledge. For example you say we had the same gameplan for 11 games last year. That is ridiculous and no one who knew even a modicum of how teams prepare for another would say we didnt change our gameplan for each opponent. Hours and hours of film work lead to hours of matching plays to other teams tendencies and looks in certain down and distances. They aren't just pulling plays out of the air. Everything is scripted and yet fluid based on what you are setting up for later, what is working, and where you can exploit mismatches. It is a chess game that is constantly changing. So please stop with the amateurish complaint he doesn't adjust and get more specific by saying his adjustments to outside wide 9 pressure are ineffective. And then tell what he did wrong. Then I will give you some credence and we can have a discussion. Otherwise stop the parroted complaints that have no root in any substance.

In other words, you want a pendantic argument. No. You're not getting it.

Other teams strategies: Put pressure from the edges on Cam. Anyone who should be a quick outlet will be used in max pro. Then you will have 4 defensive players covering 3 offensive players deep down field, and only Olsen needed to be doubled, if he's not in protection. 

You want to argue terminology? Go argue it somewhere else. This thread is about how every team knows to beat us by following the preceding paragraph. 

How many times has this strategy been used against us?

How many times have we tried to make that strategy not work against us?