The NFL has an Offensive Line Crisis

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, XClown1986 said:

This article really should state that the NFL has an offensive tackle crisis. Not offensive line. There are plenty of good guards and centers around the league. The trouble comes from protecting against edge rushers. 

The more athletic big guys get put on the D-line, not the O-line. Colleges and Pro teams need to think about moving athletic, but underachieving, D-linemen to the offensive line more often if they want the talent pool to get deeper.

Like Nate Chandler? I agree at the college level, but by the time they get to the pro level there's usually just too much ground to make up in terms of skill and technique. 

[shaqattaq]

1 hour ago, Darvinsun said:

I vote Norwell.Colleges are producing good DLinemen its the offense that struggle. Plus we are already struggling with left tackle ..We do not need the whole offensive line to be brand new.

That's a good point. Even Matt Kalil says that having Norwell beside him has been one of the key factors in his improvement. 

[GoobyPls]

Anyone else tired of Russell Wilson getting the o-line excuse? This guy holds the ball forever and expects to have a clean pocket 

[KB_fan]

4 hours ago, GRWatcher said:

Which is why we should've kept Chris Scott on IR.

Not sure we could keep him on IR if he's not seriously injured / passed a physical.  I don't think his injury was truly season-ending.

I assume that by reaching an injury settlement it means that if he's not claimed by another team we COULD re-sign him.  But I'm pretty much just speculating / could be wrong.

[KB_fan]

And if I had to pick one, right now I'd say pay Star.  I think we're (shockingly) a bit deeper on Oline than Dline depth.

We've got Moton / Daryl Williams / Larsen / Silatolu all of whom can play guard...  Maybe Van Roten too, I really haven't paid much attention to if he's any good... 

Peppers & CJ could retire.  Vernon Butler hasn't proven that he's durable.  I think this makes Star the priority right now.

I love Norwell and HOPE we can find some way to pay both Star & Norwell.  It will take some very disciplined & creative Cap management.  With Marty at the helm it's hard to be optimistic that it happens...  OR, it happens but it seriously handicaps us going forward.  Hmmmmm.

[bythenbrs]

This will never happen and I will assuredly be flamed for suggesting it...

[Hypothetical situation where Jerry brings both Star and Norwell into a conference room and shuts the door. ]

'Fellas, listen up.  Signing both of you greatly improves the odds of keeping Cam healthy and winning a Super Bowl but we cannot sign both of you, if you both expect to get max contracts.  Blows up the cap, you know that.  I am asking each of you to take a reasonable home team discount.  You will still both be set for life and you may eventually retire as a Panther with a Super Bowl ring, along with my great admiration and respect.  Now I am going to leave this room and allow the two of you to discuss this privately.  Take as much time as you would like and this conversation remains between the three of us.'

Game theory calls this the 'Prisoner's Dilemma' and the expectation is that neither will cooperate with the other but sometimes the stars align and you get the unexpected when you appeal to people's higher nature.  

I give it one chance in ten but it is zero chance if you don't give it a try.  Flame away. 

[Icege]

With how long it took MSM to figure this out, I'm terrified how long it will take them to accurately report on the OOPS THIS ISN'T THE TINDERBOX BRB SOZ

[2jakefansinva]

7 hours ago, csx said:

Babe Ruth

and Frank Howard.....

met him once as a teen.....fu*ker was huge.

biggest hands I ever shook

[iamhubby1]

10 hours ago, csx said:

I can't remember who said this (Gettleman ??) but colleges don't concentrate on technique now they the majority of the time scheming and working on more and more complex playbooks. OL are especially behind when they come in in comparison to the past.

I realize this contradicts my previous statement a little. It's likely a combination or several factors

 

College coaches are handicapped by far less practice time. Back in the day, you had 2-a-days in the Spring. Then had them in the Summer. And then again in the Fall. Nowadays, you don't even have 2-a-days. Less practice means their technique is far less polished.

 

Then add in the fact that more, and more college teams are going to the spread. So those Olinemen are not schooled in the techniques of the Pro game.

 

IMO, these are the 2 major reasons that Olinemen coming out of college are not as skilled as in days past.

 

 

9 hours ago, xav8tor said:

Recently, there's been some P and FB players pushing six six and three hundred. Quite a few more guys in the six three/four range probably could have hit OL weights in an NFL training regimen. Boog Powell comes to mind. Relatively big FB hitter back in the Brave's hay day. He was a fun guy to watch if you're a baseball fan.

 

I may have read that wrong. So if I did, don't take this the wrong way. But Powell played for the Orioles. Dude killed my Tigers for what seemed like forever. I defiantly had a love hate relationship with the dude.

[Santee_Panther]

A couole things to think about re Norwell vs Star.

1) year one cap hit isn't the problem, it's years 2-5 that are the problem. 

2) DTs make a lot more money than OGs, so the market clearly cares more about Star...but with a much higher cost. 

If we use Turner and KK as the proxy, year one cap hit for Tuner was $4mil and KK $10mm. But Year 2 those numbers go up to $7.7 and $17. 

So if we give Norwell and Star similar contracts, past that first year of the contract you end up with 20% of the cap tied up in Star and KK and 10% in the two guards. Can it work? Yes, but would make other areas right. 

[iamhubby1]

    Ah hellz. There are plenty of ways to work around the cap. And your lines are the foundation. So I am advocating keeping them both. But on the other hand. We have Moton, who seemed to play well there, albeit against lesser competition. So just continue to draft talent, and let the chips fall where they may.

 

    We got Norwell as a UDFA, and we got Moton as a late 2nd rounder. If we can continue that success, we should be able to keep that Oline stocked. I say, I say, should. Which in theory, could make Norwell expendable.

 

    But man, you gotta keep Norwell. That man is a beast, and a tone setter on that line. However, you cannot possibly let Stah get away. The man is a total Boss. Losing him would greatly affect our Dline. So you have to do whatever you can to keep him.

 

    Short story long. Keep them both, unless you can find a Norwell replacement. Then you have some wiggle room.

[Marguide]

7 hours ago, bythenbrs said:

[Hypothetical situation where Jerry brings both Star and Norwell into a conference room and shuts the door. ]

'Fellas, listen up.  Signing both of you greatly improves the odds of keeping Cam healthy and winning a Super Bowl but we cannot sign both of you, if you both expect to get max contracts.  Blows up the cap, you know that.  I am asking each of you to take a reasonable home team discount.  You will still both be set for life and you may eventually retire as a Panther with a Super Bowl ring, along with my great admiration and respect.  Now I am going to leave this room and allow the two of you to discuss this privately.  Take as much time as you would like and this conversation remains between the three of us.

I like your thinking.

Unfortunately, agents exist.

[Jay Roosevelt]

The Star vs. Norwell debate... TBH, I expect this decision will ultimately be decided by the play of Vernon Butler, Taylor Moton, and Daryl Williams by the end of this season.

If Daryl Williams proves himself to be a viable long-term starting RT by year's end, that means Taylor Moton no longer needs to be groomed for that position and can become the new starting LG if/when Norwell leaves. Likewise, if Vernon Butler shows he can 1) get and stay healthy, and 2) play at a high enough level, then he becomes a viable long-term replacement for Star, if he should hit free agency.

On the other hand, if Daryl Williams struggles at RT and Taylor Moton has to take over, that makes Norwell that much more important given we would have no immediate replacement lined up for him. At the same time, if Vernon Butler doesn't show that he can play at a high enough level to replace Star, that makes the need of re-signing Star a bigger priority that it'd otherwise be. I suppose the worst case scenario is Daryl Williams struggling, Moton being promoted to the starting RT spot, and Butler either not performing well or struggling with injuries. In that scenario we'd be facing the prospect of losing a key starter without a ready replacement regardless of who the front office decides to give a new contract to.

However, there's also another scenario where it could end up being that we don't have to keep either Star or Norwell. If Daryl Williams does well at RT this year and Vernon Butler proves to be an impact player at DT, then in theory it'd only be a matter of switching Taylor Moton to LG permanently to replace Norwell and promoting Butler to a starting role to replace Star. At that point we'd only really need to enhance our depth at those positions via free agency and the draft AND be able to spend that money elsewhere.

[Ja Rhule]

19 hours ago, GRWatcher said:

Which is why we should've kept Chris Scott on IR.

Saw Chris Scott today.  He looks fine.