PFF: Refocused Car-23 SF-3

[mikeholiday]

34 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

The problem with PFF is that they see the play and formation and decide based on what they see whether the player did the right thing or not. So for example a corner who is supposed to be in man hands off a receiver to a linebacker thinking it is zone on a skinny post. The linebacker doesn't realize the corner dropped off so he doesn't pick him up and the quarterback has an easy pass. PFF will credit the linebacker with the completion and gaff thinking it was zone yet it wasn't his responsibility and the corner was supposed to be in man. But if you didn't know the coverage call you wouldn't know that. This type of thing happens all the time.

 

2

This isn't rocket science. Jesus Christ, Ron freaking Rivera is employed as an NFL coach. Marinate on that. 

[panthers55]

20 minutes ago, mikeholiday said:

This isn't rocket science. Jesus Christ, Ron freaking Rivera is employed as an NFL coach. Marinate on that. 

Apparently it is or you would know that Rivera has won coach of the year 2 times in the past 5 years. Only other coaches to win twice or more in the past 15 years are Bruce Arians and Bill Belicheck. Marinate on that......

[top dawg]

50 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

From the linked article:

Not exactly a glowing endorsement.

Sounds like just a matter of compiling as much raw data as possible, not that it's particularly valuable in and of itself.

Bingo. 

 

Well, that's kind if the point. I've said it all along. Context! What some of y'all's problems seem to be is that you want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. 

Bottom line, and perhaps another one of those inconvenient truths is that most NFL franchises see the value in PFF and will definitely use it as one of their guides to determine their valuation of players. That's indisputable. If their stats/grades were as useless as some of you are intimating, then NFL franchises wouldn't give them credence. They do. You don't have to.

[panthers55]

5 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Well, that's kind if the point. I've said it all along. Context! What some of y'all's problems seem to be is that you want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. 

Bottom line, and perhaps another one of those inconvenient truths is that most NFL franchises see the value in PFF and will definitely use it as one of their guides to determine their valuation of players. That's indisputable. If their stats/grades were as useless as some of you are intimating, then NFL franchises wouldn't give them credence. They do. You don't have to.

NFL teams don't use PFF for grading they use it for raw data. Very different. Because they do have the context and playbook and know what was called so they can use the raw data and apply it where PFF can supply the data but has no context making their grading largely useless.

[top dawg]

Just now, panthers55 said:

NFL teams don't use PFF for grading they use it for raw data. Very different. Because they do have the context and playbook and know what was called so they can use the raw data and apply it where PFF can supply the data but has no context making their grading largely useless.

You can think they don't use the grades all you like. I don't believe that for one minute. They do use them, just as they use the pure stats and other means to evaluate. They just do it all within context.

[Saca312]

Lmao @ the notion NFL teams are actually dumb enough to put weight in PFF analysis in judging players.

[Shocker]

2 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

Lmao @ the notion NFL teams are actually dumb enough to put weight in PFF analysis in judging players.

That is pretty damn retarded.  Yeah, they are websurfing to eval the team.  

[Saca312]

"Oh, we hired a bunch of scouts and coaches that actually know a lot of football and understand context and what a good player looks like, but let's look up a bunch of random guys who come out with grades less than an hour after the game's ended and who've never played a down in their life online and use that to judge players!"

[top dawg]

"Yeah, and let's actually pay Matt Harmon and Cian Fahey for their spot-on analysis because they know more than the coaches and scouts, and, most importantly, the monkeys at PFF who know nothing."

[top dawg]

I am going to stop before I even get started, but I will say that the manner in which people don't listen and/or understand what is being said, to the point where they would twist words even though what is actually being said is as plain as day is getting very tiresome indeed. I'm just not playing that game tonight.

[panthers55]

13 hours ago, top dawg said:

You can think they don't use the grades all you like. I don't believe that for one minute. They do use them, just as they use the pure stats and other means to evaluate. They just do it all within context.

NFL teams have their own grading system that is based on what actually happened and what was supposed to happen based on film study. They aren't going to rely on outside sources who only have part of the story. They have full time folks who do little else. Just like they use scouting services to gather data for them but have their own people to do their own scouting.  

So yes they do use the collected data from PFF but do their own grading which.may be very different that PFF.  So no they don't think the PFF grades are that great or they wouldn't do their own evaluations. Now for casual fans the grading system would be useful since we don't have context and most everyone sees the film but doesn't understand the nuances of the game enough to evaluate what they are seeing.

 

[panthers55]

13 hours ago, top dawg said:

I am going to stop before I even get started, but I will say that the manner in which people don't listen and/or understand what is being said, to the point where they would twist words even though what is actually being said is as plain as day is getting very tiresome indeed. I'm just not playing that game tonight.

You could start practicing what you preach as well.

[top dawg]

Just now, panthers55 said:

You could start practicing what you preach as well.

Well, since I do that, you point it out. Point it out!

[panthers55]

Just now, top dawg said:

Well, since I do that, you point it out. Point it out!

Easy enough. Look at your responses to me. You are so interested in trying to argue and prove your point you acknowledge nothing that I said just argued. Now look at what I posted acknowledging they do use the data but do their own grading given they have more context than PFF could have since they know the playbook. Now you could have said that makes sense and I am sure they do their own grading and evaluations but also find that PFF offers a number of statistical comparisons and evaluations with their data that makes NFL evaluators more efficient so they can focus and do their evaluations quicker and move on to other things. Instead you argue I am wrong and you are right and give some twisted version of context which without the playbook and what was called they couldn't have anything close to the same context.