Gruden LOVES Steve Smith LOL

[beastson]

Yall talking a lot of past things

Who's the better coach right now, even though Gruden doesn't have a job, should I say last year?

[Montsta]

The point is that Fox inherited the worst team in football, took them to the Super Bowl in 2 years, and barely lost to a better opponent than the Raiders team that Gruden faced, and he owned Gruden when he faced his teams head to head. Besides that, it's not like Tampa needed Vince Lombardi...they just needed a decent offense to go with the dominating defense that was already in place.

So would you say that's where coaching trumps team talent? The difference between barely losing to a great team and absolutely dismantling a very good team could very well be in the coaching. I feel like I'm coming off as thinking Gruden is the savior of the franchise because he's nice to us on MNF, and I don't mean to come off that way.

I just don't like it when people downplay the accomplishments of some coaches by saying it's another coaches team or anything like that I guess. Bottom line is that it is very hard to win a championship in the NFL. Look at the drop-off in the records of the Super Bowl loser. It's almost unexplainable. Same coach. Same players. New year. Shitty team. I think Tomlin is a great HC and I won't take his accomplishments away by saying he won with Cowher's team. He won it with his team. He got the ring. I'm not gonna downplay that because he didn't pick Ben Roethlisberger in the draft.

If Fox gets fired and we win a Super Bowl in 2 years, no one around here will probably give Fox credit and say, "He won with Fox's team." They'll give all the credit to the new guy. And that's how it should be. Whoever get's the Gatorade dumped on their back in February deserves the credit, regardless of who put the peices in place before them.

[monstercat]

Yall talking a lot of past things

Who's the better coach right now, even though Gruden doesn't have a job, should I say last year?

Fox is better. As much as people want to get rid of him, and as tough as it is right now, he has never been worse than 7-9. Gruden went 4-12 a few years ago and every QB he had in Tampa was better than David Carr.

To Monsta...coaching never trumps talent as far as I'm concerned.

[Wither]

Still, if he was saying receiver I won't argue. Smitty is sort of like the Barry Sanders of receivers. He is amazingly elusive (and surprisingly powerful and scrappy) and many of us will probably end up questioning how much better he would have been playing with a great QB...much like people always ask 'How good would Barry Sanders have been if he played on good teams and had a good line?"

He wouldn't have as many spectacular catches because the QB would've threw them better.

He prob is bidding for a Job. He has a gameplan and knows Fox is on the way out. Sorry but it makes since.

I think he's just sticking up for teams he thinks get no credit, ever, like the Panthers.

[monstercat]

I think he's just sticking up for teams he thinks get no credit, ever, like the Panthers.

You may have a point there. I love that he made the argument that DeAngelo Williams is actually better than AP, because he gets almost as much yardage with fewer carries and doesn't turn the ball over nearly as much.

[Wither]

You may have a point there. I love that he made the argument that DeAngelo Williams is actually better than AP, because he gets almost as much yardage with fewer carries and doesn't turn the ball over nearly as much.

AP is a good RB, but I'd say overrated, and I think Gruden knows that and is pointing out that there are other good RB's in the league. Usually, there is a tendency in the media (this includes the announcers calling the games) to harp on one subject, one player, one team, etc. I don't really blame the media, as it's just natural to go along with what other people say (for a variety of reasons).

AP is good (very good), but I think everyone saw what happened on Monday; he's not unstoppable by any means. There is a very good reason why people like me aren't playing in the NFL: it takes skill. Almost every single player in the NFL is phenomenal by some measure, and they never get any credit.

[PantherFanNumeroUno]

While that may be, I like to look at the complete collapse of an entire franchise, from top to bottom, since Gruden's departure in Oakland. Anyone that can make a successful team under the senile control of Al Davis' gets my respect. I'm not dabbling too much into our future head coach scenarios yet at 0-3 with 3 VERY winnable games ahead of us due to the fear of people quoting my panic posts and making me look silly 3 weeks from now when we're sitting at .500.

I think my point is that Gruden has a leg-up on all other candidates for any possible vacancies in our coaching staff, as he knows our divisional players and most importantly our team very, very well. He's watched hundreds of hours of game film for most of those guys.

Plus I know people say he lost his team and he yells maybe too much, but maybe that's what we need. It's like how I don't like women that are too passive. But after 4 years with the most domineering bitch on the planet, I had to get with a woman who was pretty much a marshmallow with a pulse. I needed a change of pace.

Exactamundo! Maybe we need a Hard Sell/Soft Sell approach to the players, as Gruden being the Hard Sell/laying down the law and JR being the Soft Sell giving the players the love they need. I just don't see Foxy not laying down the law, maybe behind closed doors?

[Snake]

The point is that Fox inherited the worst team in football, took them to the Super Bowl in 2 years, and barely lost to a better opponent than the Raiders team that Gruden faced, and he owned Gruden when he faced his teams head to head. Besides that, it's not like Tampa needed Vince Lombardi...they just needed a decent offense to go with the dominating defense that was already in place.

You Give Fox too much credit. The fact is the team peaked too early and Fox has not since then been able to keep a core group of players or coaches together. While Gruden didnt have much success winning ageist us he did give TB a SB. For whatever reason you want to say they got a SB and Fox did not give us one. If it makes you feel any better nether coach is better then Bill Belichick. Then again he didnt fair too well his first try ether. Fox and Gruden are on the same level as far as Im concerned they are both above avg coaches.

[monstercat]

You Give Fox too much credit. The fact is the team peaked too early and Fox has not since then been able to keep a core group of players or coaches together. While Gruden didnt have much success winning ageist us he did give TB a SB. For whatever reason you want to say they got a SB and Fox did not give us one. If it makes you feel any better nether coach is better then Bill Belichick. Then again he didnt fair too well his first try ether. Fox and Gruden are on the same level as far as Im concerned they are both above avg coaches.

Bottom line...I love Gruden in the booth but I don't want him anywhere near my Panthers as a HC. He had one lucky season where everything came together perfectly, but never even sniffed the second round of the play offs for the majority of his time in Tampa. Why fire the guy you have for a guy who's not better?