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Jared Allen > Peppers

southcakalac

By southcakalac,
in Carolina Panthers

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Drithe Newbie

Drithe

Posted
Posted

Peppers has more potential? That is just plain crazy talk. Potential is for fairy tales and mommies boys. You do or you dont. There is no inbetween.

Jared Allen does. Julius Peppers does not. It is just that simple.

End of Line.

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chbright Mentor

chbright

Posted
Posted

production on the field > potential/tallent

all day long.

allen produces, did so in KC with no one inside worth a damn (as has been pointed out already), continued once he got paid, and has done so once traded to a better team. i'll take that guy that brings it everyday all day and produces year after year, game after game. hell i would take a team of tallentless guys that just produce over tallent that never goes anywhere. that second team is call the oakland raiders. all that high 1st round tallent, all the high priced FA, and what has that got them. the worst record in football the last 10 years. WOOOHOOOO TALLENT FTW!

remember the washed up wr that went to oakland, was unmotivated and was not close to the to wr he was earlier in terms of production or effort: randy moss. he quit on minny, and quit on oakland. but the guy goes to NE, gets a little motivation and everyone remembers that tallent he had before oakland never left, he got his ass in gear and produced. that oakland moss is what we have here, and i would gladly take production at this point, we need it more than the hope pep decides to turn it on all the time again. we need the money to be spent on production not tallent (see NE on getting rid of $$$$ production for production on the cheap).

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Miaoww Newbie

Miaoww

Posted
Posted

It's an age old coaching dilemma. Do you want the more physically gifted guy or the guy with less talent but the willingness to work his tail off all day, every day?

As an example, say you wanted to draft a receiver and you have a choice between a tall, fast, physically gifted receiver who regularly dominates with ease and a moderately sized guy who's kind of slow but gives it all out effort on every play.

Knowing just those factors, the average person would most likely pick the first guy, and in so doing would take Roy Williams over Jerry Rice.

Julius Peppers and Jared Allen present a similar dilemma at the defensive end spot.

It's not quite at clear cut at that though. The physical specimen is obviously going to be something special, but you don't get to the NFL without being a very good athlete in your own right.

Having said that you take the guy that goes all out in practice and in games - the NFL is so much about technique and awareness (which is a natural ability augmented by watching game film).

Peppers is a physical freak, but there's no way he's dogging it as much as people say - there's a pride factor at stake here. With the way he's handled by T's (and occasionally TE's) to me it's clear that he simply doesn't have 'it' when it comes to the football side of things.

There's only so far you can go being bigger and faster than the other guy - if he knows you don't have an arsenal of perfected moves, or indeed simply one killer move (ala Freeney) then he's going to be able to stop you. To me that's down to a lack of work ethic on Peppers' end - as everyone has stated, in theory he should be almost impossible to stop. The T should already have to respect the speed and strength, but he's also got to account for the deception - from what I can tell with Peppers he either bull rushes or speed rushes the outside shoulder - both are easily handled by professional offensive linemen when they know he's unlikely to pull out a pass rushing move to best them once they're set.

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g5jamz Newbie

g5jamz

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Posted

It's not quite at clear cut at that though. The physical specimen is obviously going to be something special, but you don't get to the NFL without being a very good athlete in your own right.

Having said that you take the guy that goes all out in practice and in games - the NFL is so much about technique and awareness (which is a natural ability augmented by watching game film).

Peppers is a physical freak, but there's no way he's dogging it as much as people say - there's a pride factor at stake here. With the way he's handled by T's (and occasionally TE's) to me it's clear that he simply doesn't have 'it' when it comes to the football side of things.

There's only so far you can go being bigger and faster than the other guy - if he knows you don't have an arsenal of perfected moves, or indeed simply one killer move (ala Freeney) then he's going to be able to stop you. To me that's down to a lack of work ethic on Peppers' end - as everyone has stated, in theory he should be almost impossible to stop. The T should already have to respect the speed and strength, but he's also got to account for the deception - from what I can tell with Peppers he either bull rushes or speed rushes the outside shoulder - both are easily handled by professional offensive linemen when they know he's unlikely to pull out a pass rushing move to best them once they're set.

You sound like Colin Cowherd...but you're right.

The "it" factor.

Byron Leftwich could probably throw a football and break my face...but Chad Pennington was the better QB. Chad Pennington gave everything he had with what physical tools he had. It's about the "it" factor. Some guys just don't have it.

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firstdayfan Enthusiast

firstdayfan

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The Randy Moss comparison was a great one. When Randy Moss was in Oakland and basically quit many people said the same things that are being said about Peppers right now. But he was still one of the most talented WR's in the NFL. He went to the Patriots and now is one of the best again. This is exactly my point. Peppers is still one of the best DE's in the league right now whether he is playing like it or not. The talent is there, the motor is there, its just not on display right now. Jared Allen is playing well right now and Peppers is not. That doesn't mean one is better than the other. If Peppers goes to the Patriots and gets 20 sacks then people will say wow he is the best, he always been the best, he just doesn't show it like he should. Just like Randy Moss never lost his talent, he just lost the will to keep trying.

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panther4life Community Regular

panther4life

Posted
Posted

It's an age old coaching dilemma. Do you want the more physically gifted guy or the guy with less talent but the willingness to work his tail off all day, every day?

As an example, say you wanted to draft a receiver and you have a choice between a tall, fast, physically gifted receiver who regularly dominates with ease and a moderately sized guy who's kind of slow but gives it all out effort on every play.

Knowing just those factors, the average person would most likely pick the first guy, and in so doing would take Roy Williams over Jerry Rice.

Julius Peppers and Jared Allen present a similar dilemma at the defensive end spot.

well think what al davis would do?see what i'm saying, go the exact of opposite of that

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