unverified report: gettleman cut steve smith because in 2013 he punched cam newton in the face twice in the locker room after practice

[Snake]

Just now, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Wasn't the last OC under John Fox directed to no longer talk to Steve Smith?

Wanna say Steve went over everyone's head directly to JR on that issue.

Yea but it was way more than that. He was a big reason Jake was kept as well. Needless to say JR was put between his franchise QB and Smith and picked Cam. That's why you hear Josh Norman say "it's all about Cam" and you see us draft this year the way we did. OK so I need to shut up now lol. 

[Snake]

4 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Yeah, seeing how all of this has played out 3 years later, and it seems like it confirms what I suspected of JR and his involvement during DGs tenure as well.  I've said elsewhere on the huddle that I have had the impression that JR values Accorsi's pick in DG, and gave him total autonomy initially.  JR's lack of presence and/or visibility at the point that Smitty, who was like a son to him, was released, was always curious to me.  Now, as I suspected, it seems like it was the first, "Ok, I'll trust you on it, but I don't like it," move of a series that ultimately JR couldn't get around.  And ultimately, JR decided to get involved again and thus, fired DG and re-inserted a guy who wouldn't act as autonomously...  where JR is most comfortable.  I just hope they've learned something over the last 22 years.

All that said, And not to turn this into another referendum of DG, but I can now acknowledge he likely made the right choice in this situation...  as hard as it is to say that.  If they knew it was a growing problem that wouldn't settle itself, Smitty forced their hand, and that sucks which I always imagined was possible, but combined with other situations and the idea that Smitty would force his own demise here, I just didn't think it was likely.  That being said, I still had issue with Dave on his handling of other negotiations and the effect it had on our reputation and on-dield outcomes...  the Norman thing was a lot more out in the open and very clear in reading what happened.  I still think that was an unforgivable gaffe for any GM...  JMO.  

But, yeah, I have to take a huge step back on my criticism of DG as far as his handling of Smitty goes.  It just sucks having to acknowledge your hero's tragic flaws run that deep...

JR never "really" gave up control. It just seemed that way. Dave's impact was his scouting and roster moves. Dave's dismissal was more than likely planned but I'm just guessing on that. 

[Proudiddy]

30 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

It's kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" proposition in this case.

Let's say you hold a press conference and speak glowingly of all his achievements and how much you love him and thank him for everything.

How do you think an already pissed off Steve Smith reacts to that?

 

18 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Who know's, but Cam might not have taken it well either.  

Getting pounded on the field and in the locker room while management spoke glowingly about his assailant.

Steve had a well established record for putting the people he swung at in the hospital and ending their careers.

It may have been all the team could muster to put up with his antics till the end of the season.

Ideally, i just thought IF we held such a presser or released such a statement, whatever Smitty said or did after could just be written off as sour grapes.  A lot like how the DWill stuff has played out.  Even big DWill fans just got to a point of, "Get over it," and eventually DWill kept up the routine long enough that most huddlers unaninimously grew tired of it and stopped listening.  It became both expected and indefenisble.  I imagine thats how it would've played out in that case as well.

And I also don't think Cam would've taken it too hard, or at least that's how I'd like to think it would've played out.  I envision it would've been like DG/Ron going to Cam and saying, "look, we know he's been unbearable, but for the fans he did a lot for the franchise. We're just gonna honor him here, let him go, and from here on out, the team and the fans are all yours.  Let's just get this out there and move on."

But, like Nanuq said, it looks, sounds, and feels like things were in such a turbulent state that they just wanted to get it done and let the public perception fall where it may.  Sucks...  but again, that falls in line with what an overpowering force of a personality Smitty is...  he wouldn't let it end gracefully.

[Snake]

10 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

And when the Gettleman haters came out in force.

Cause winning isn't really that important.

Not after Cam became a super star. You can sell a bunch of Jerseys when you have four years of success. Dave's undoing might have been his success. 

[NanuqoftheNorth]

2 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

That being said, I still had issue with Dave on his handling of other negotiations and the effect it had on our reputation and on-dield outcomes...  the Norman thing was a lot more out in the open and very clear in reading what happened.  I still think that was an unforgivable gaffe for any GM...  JMO.

It would have been great if we could have locked Norman up for one more year.  

While there were many reasons the Panthers struggled last year, Norman's absence certainly played a large role in the disappointing season.

Having said that, Josh made public pronouncements about being worth as much as a QB, a demand that if met would have undermined the long term health of the franchise.  He hired an inexperienced agent to represent him and promptly fired him after talks fell through.  I'm not sure there was much Dave could have done without Norman's cooperation to change the outcome of those negotiations.  

With Smitty gone, Norman was the biggest, most volatile diva on the team.

Not sure he was worth the long term headache.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

22 minutes ago, PhillyB said:

the scary part is he's rebuilding a platform to introduce that kind of toxicity back into the organization from the top.

This is my fear as well now that Gettleman has been replaced with an infamous "yes" man.

[CarolinaNCSU]

Totally believe it, and think it goes on more than people think.  MJ punching Steve Kerr another (more famous) example. The mix of testosterone, egos, money, hurt feelings, etc...with dudes you're supposed to hit on the field? A locker room punch doesn't seem out of line. 

 

I love Smitty, but always understood the need for him to be let go.  If this story is true...damn good call to let him go.  He would've been a cancer that never let Cam reach MVP potential IMO. 

Will be interesting to see how Smitty is handled by Cam, or others, when he has his retirement here. 

[LinvilleGorge]

Story seems plenty believable given Smitty's propensity for punching teammates in the face, but he'd be punching well above his weightclass in that one. He's a tough as they come, but unless others intervened quickly I don't much like his chances against Cam.

[CatMan72]

To play devil's advocate - why would Smitty keep quiet about this?

[PhillyB]

1 minute ago, CatMan72 said:

To play devil's advocate - why would Smitty keep quiet about this?

the same reason he never told anyone about the jeff davidson incident. also because JR clearly put a moratorium on it knowing if it went public it'd be a massive distraction to the team and he'd have almost no choice but to let gettleman cut him. smith gains nothing by telling this story and loses everything.

[CarolinaNCSU]

1 minute ago, CatMan72 said:

To play devil's advocate - why would Smitty keep quiet about this?

Then?  Revenge tour, wanting a shot on another team maybe.  Wanting to put his past reputation behind him a bit/set up his future (TV jobs, etc.).  Respect for JR even if there was a gag order put on everybody.

Now?  Yeahhhh nothing really stopping him, unless it's respect for JR not to say anything and let it continue to be a dead story. 

[NanuqoftheNorth]

13 minutes ago, CatMan72 said:

To play devil's advocate - why would Smitty keep quiet about this?

Why would Smitty brag about this?

It would only reinforce a bad perception of him.

Having said that, I could see it coming out eventually after JR passes, most likely in an "exclusive" interview or a tell-all book deal. 

[Proudiddy]

1 hour ago, frash.exe said:

any of you guys watch the sopranos when they were producing episodes? you remember that episode where meadow's boyfriend basically confirms to everyone in the back of satriale's that vito sucks dick, and chris moltisanti is wearing the biggest "i knew it" grin of all of them? i hope you do bc that's the look i've got on my face right now.

everybody on here tries to rip into me for being so harsh on smith's character the past few years, but the truth is that i'm a really good judge of character. when we lost against the cardinals embarassingly years ago, i immediately mused that it marked the end of john fox's run in carolina, and that he would work here until his contract expired in 2010 as a lame duck, and nobody bought it, and that's exactly what happened. for years i pegged hurney as a glorified yes man for JR, there to oversee the day to day operations and make sure the basic, major directives that JR wanted were met, and that there was little else that qualified him for the position, and he rears a spoiled locker room depleted in talent beyond the main guys and he ruins the fuging cap, and the whole time, everybody tells me that i don't know what i'm talking about.

i don't think smith is quite the benevolent tireless fighter family man that the media portrays him to be. i think he's a phony bully who is also an extrovert and a social butterfly, and he knows that the media's perception of him is that he is a player worthy of being on a team of greater importance. because nobody gives a flying poo about carolina (for all of kerry collins' irrational outbursts and notoriety, one thing he did hit the nail on the head on was when he described that he was bummed out for being drafted to carolina bc he thought we were this ass backwards, podunk organization.)

oh did he threaten a former teammate in front of his own children? punched a few other guys too? oh you just don't understand him. the guy fought to get where he is from the bottom. he worked at taco bell once blah blah blah. the media has romanticized smith's "struggle" since at least the triple crown season. he's the underdog story, he's the everyman to them. so he knows he can play them like a fiddle. they have a value to him. and he has a value to them bc they know that his narrative sells. so he's not going to rip the press and lose adoration. given all of this corroboration happening, some journalists might have heard this very thing but brushed it off as insignificant, or didn't want to upset the applecart. 

 

While i think the media does go to great lengths to highlight Smitty for his story, his personality, and his funny sound bites, I want to make it clear that I never fell into such binary dichotomies when it came to my fandom with him, or my issues with DG, or even my perspective on JR.

I know your post is in a very general sense, but just wanted to acknowledge the unique nature of my perspective on all things Panthers lol.

I admired Smitty as the everyman you describe...  the never-say-die, superpowered, yet undersized overcomer-of-all-odds, who just also happens to be a huge asshole lol.  I've always acknowledged he was all of those things, and was no role model.  And just like you, I've always prided myself on my intuition and being an excellent judge of character...  As proof, I've even shared here multiple times how I once approached him on The Caravan tour at Ft. Bragg in '04 and I swore I was a millisecond and a handler away from getting the Anthony Bright treatment.  If looks could kill...  he was a complete asshole.  And even in that short interaction, when I came back around through the line, it seemed as though he held a grudge for approaching him outside of the line the first time around.  I've told the story to tons of friends over the years and just always thought of it as laugh-worthy fodder while also a lesson to be learned from.  I didnt take it too seriously, but it definitely changed my mind about casually asking for autographs even at an autograph-centered event.  I also was already pretty grounded when it came to fandom...  i had been let down by heroes I personally knew well before I was ever capable of admiring a public figure, so I always kept that in mind, even in that exchange with Smitty...  And naturally, I've always been very cynical, so it wasn't like I was some naive child.  I was aware of the way the media works, of how volatile he was, but it was more of a "just want to let the guy know I appreciate what he's done for the team I love and to keep up the good work... "And I imagined he would appreciate that.  Nope.  And that interaction reminded me of all I already knew as well as filled in a lot of blanks of what I didn't.  I've often wondered how strong of a woman does his wife have to be, because although I am certain he indeed loves his family and treats them well, he honestly seems unhinged...  So, I've always thought she had to be an almost unnatural force of calm to counter that, or temper that in him, because publicly, outside of his own home, he's never seemed to be able to control it.  So, I say all of that to say, I was always well aware of all the dynamics at play when it came to Smitty, i just chose to separate the player from the person and appreciate the player for what he was on the field for us.  

Yes, he was a completely unstable, misanthropic asshole capable of violence for no apparent reason off the field, but on the field, I'd like to project all of that anger, all those times of being slighted and overlooked, all the times we were deemed not good enough, all of those things us everymen felt, Smitty, the player, put that on his back and played with all of those emotions as his fuel.  And that's where fandom won out over everything else...  I always will appreciate him in those terms.

Similarly, i have always been able to separate business from the personal.  I have always been able to appreciate Gettleman's contributions as a talent evaluator.  I also was able to acknowledge his errors in the public handling of certain situations and my reaction to that was often amplified by what I perceived as a lack of acknowledgement from others.  I wasn't right...  I do at times enjoy being petty and going tit for tat, and in doing so, my actual point often gets lost in the muck.  I've never hated DG or set out to villainize him, but the nature of message boards often dictate you do one thing or the other.

Also in the same vein, I have always loved and appreciated JR for being the guy with the vision to bring a franchise to my home state.  Something to finally be proud of...  to feel is my own on a national sports landscape.  Something to unite people locally (and nationally)...  but, I also have repeatedly questioned his decisions and harshly criticized him for various moves.

I think my point in explaining all of this is that while there are many here who do think in such binary terms, I have always prided myself on not being such a person.  I feel my frustration is often misinterpreted so that it may be easily categorized in easily digestible "one or the other" terms...  It seems society as a whole has adopted this approach over the recent past and has now fully embraced it.  I like to think I always inhabit a very objective grey-area and like to look at everything from every possible angle before making any final conclusion.  But, again, I'm not immune from human flaws and allowing my message to be co-opted or mangled in order to occasionally one-up someone I don't agree with in that moment.  I'm also capable of being flat out wrong.  I'm also capable of acknowledging that.

I have always recognized the duality of Smitty, of Gettleman, of JR...  of every figure we have discussed and will discuss.  I have also always found that the truth lies somewhere in between those extremes.  And why I write all of this is to emphasize, above all, I may see through and excuse the negatives of certain individuals for what I perceived to be the greater good of our franchise.  If they can make us successful, I want to see beyond their shortcomings.  If I perceive those shortcomings harm our ability to be successful, that supercedes all else.

This overly sappy, honest, and excruciatingly long post was brought to you by an overactive mind in a moment of clarity.  Thank you, and please excuse any typos courtesy of my inconsiderate auto-correct.

 

[E CaT PanTHer 2]

39 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Story seems plenty believable given Smitty's propensity for punching teammates in the face, but he'd be punching well above his weightclass in that one. He's a tough as they come, but unless others intervened quickly I don't much like his chances against Cam.

don't quite agree. I have 6'4 friends who are the biggest puppy dogs you'll ever meet, and then 5'5 asian friends who'll throw down no matter what the circumstances and who they're up against, and 9 times out of 10, they'll come out victorious simply b/c they have no fear. 

I'm not saying Cam is a puss, but I'd honestly put my money on Steve if they ever got into a brawl.

It's not the dog in the fight, but the fight in the dog.