i just bought this here computer at wal mart now lemme talk bout REAL FANS

[PanthaSan]

.....and have the alcoholism under control

That's just the liquor talking...

[Claws]

That's my post from last nite Dockery. Tell me what's to question about how I feel about the thread?

It's fairly simple to see that I claimed no prior knowledge, just stating that there's gonna be one hellraiser in the crowd if what they say is true.

Today, I posted to Fiz (not you interestingly enough) that I'm glad he made this thread because I found it 1) unbelievable that this was the worst atmosphere in pro sports and 2) it was pissin me off.

Go ahead and read it for yourself. Next time you wanna call me out on something, don't. You look foolish now. It's not indicative of your intelligence I hope.

I'm ashamed to say I've been to the city numerous times for business for business but never for a game

It is on my to do list and soon. Last year was probably my closest shot but damn money has been awful tight lately.

I can guarantee you when I do finally get to see my Beloved Panthers in person in Charlotte, there will be at least one hellraiser in the crowd.

And yes, the whine and cheese crowd I'm hearing about can kiss my ass

[Fiz]

Which is why you included a section in your OP entitled "What is a real fan?" that was complete with manufactured reasons as to why you are important?

i never once claimed i was important. why are you lying?

i would never claim that you or anyone else thinks you're relevant, for example

[Sultan33g]

i never once claimed i was important. why are you lying?

i would never claim that you or anyone else thinks you're relevant, for example

relevancy.....is overrated

[natty]

[Claws]

hahahahahaha

that is so damned funny because there's a certain truth to it!!!

lol

[Sultan33g]

hehe?

[JoCoLoco]

I need to go change my underwear, but I'm laughing too hard.

[KillerKat]

Isn't texting security a problem though? Because there have been many stories shared about security telling them to sit down or throwing them out because someone texted security simply because they were cheering. Also alot people have said they were told to sit down because they were standing and cheering.

[Scrumtrilescent]

That's always been my go to pic, dammit Fiz.

[Carolina Husker]

I'm partial to this one.

[Fiz]

Isn't texting security a problem though? Because there have been many stories shared about security telling them to sit down or throwing them out because someone texted security simply because they were cheering. Also alot people have said they were told to sit down because they were standing and cheering.

For every person who claim they got in trouble for cheering there's a person who was too drunk to remember exposing themself to a Dallas fan.

[natty]

2 years ago at the Dallas monday night game I was so wasted I probably deserved to get booted. Everyone in the row in front of me got a splash of my beer.

[Mr. Scot]

I can agree with parts of this. I'll take it bit by bit.

The Argument: BoA Stadium is the Worst Place in all of Sport History Ever And This is Why the Panthers are Bad

Well I think it's pretty simple to see why this is a flawed, worthless, easily dissected argument.

Firstly nothing fans do at all during the game has much of an affect on what happens on the field. Maybe sometimes they can get loud enough to force the QB to take a timeout, but all that does is make them switch to a silent count for the rest of the game. This can be pretty misleading because announcers like to scream "Whoa ho ho look at that crowd noise" and people watching TV think "yeah we can do that too" then get angry when everyone won't stand up on 1st and 10 from the opposite side of the field.

The truth to this is that football players simulate crowd noise with jet engines and no matter how loud you and your toothless girlfriend in a pink bedazzled jake delhomme jersey get you're not going to be louder than that.

Secondly, some people think the defense needs to be "pumped" up. If the defense needs a bunch of people yelling to play well then they don't need to be collecting a paycheck. The idea of home field advantage almost certainly has more to do with logistical problems associated with traveling, and playing on a different kinds of grass than anything coming from the stands.

I don't know that I'd discount the "12th man" as completely as you have, but there's a lot of truth in what you say here. People act like home field advantage is an insurmountable obstacle. It's far from that, even in the best and oldest stadiums.

Silent counts don't cure everything though. Loud stadiums do play havoc with a team's ability to audible (arguably more important than snap count on a given play) and false starts have been known to stall drives and/or play a part in momentum shifts.

No, the 12th man isn't as big a factor as some make it, but it's not to be completely discounted either.

The Argument: This is the Quietest Place in All Sports!

No it is not. In fact, it's quite average. I've been to playoff games in Green Bay. I've been to more Panthers game in Atlanta than most of you have been pro football games period. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

The simple fact of the matter is that with the exception of the Eagles and maybe the Bills (who are indescribably insane for some reason) most atmospheres at NFL games are remarkably similar. There is a lot of stuff going on in a stadium, people yell when good things happen, they get easily discouraged. Yes, Lincoln Financial Field looks like some Byzantine hippodrome, but that is a very rare exception.

Minus the sci-fi references, I'd pretty much agree. Even the oldest fanbases with the craziest of reputations have their fair share of bad fans. Plenty of stadiums empty out early when teams are playing poorly.

The Panther fanbase is a young one, but while I buy that there's a difference between this fanbase and some of the older ones, I don't believe there's as big a difference in noise level or fan loyalty as some might think.

A lot of it's just the fan mentality that "everyone else has it so easy and we have it so rough" which is all perspsctive (and in truth, is nearly universal).

The Argument: They've Priced Out the Real Fans

While I agree that the NFL has basically made the games inaccessible for lower classes, and if you're unlucky enough to be in a city where the elites don't decide to sell out a game you'll be blacked out, this means nothing about real fans.

Valid. And given the current state of the economy, this could be a complicated discussion. Bottom line: Tickets are ultimately worth what people are willing to spend on them. And as long as they're selling out, you'll have a hard time convincing any franchise that their prices are too high.

What is a real fan?

I've missed eight panther home games in my entire life. I sit in the lower deck. When I think real fan, I think some inbred hick with a picket tooth slack jawed grin. I think of someone who stumbled down to the lower sections who wants to get the crowd "pumped up." I think of some dude who gets drunk, picks a fight, then shits down his pant leg.

Basically I think of AKPantherfan.

I really don't know where I'm going with this anymore but it's stupid and childish to think that there's a proper way to behave at a football game. From everything I see the Panthers crowds are comparable to other teams. Yeah you can't take your shirt off but no one wants to see your jiggling gut and totally awesome new tribal arm band tattoo.

If you want to just pick a fight somewhere wait until your ex's new boyfriend comes to collect child support. It's hard to cheer for a bad team, not to mention one that plays as unexcitingly as the Panthers have since time immemorial.

If you saw me at a game, you'd see me watching intensely and breaking down what I see in my head. I'd cheer and clap when my team did well and groan when they did badly, but I'm about as outwardly unemotional a person as you'd find (my friends joke that Mister Spock would tell me to lighten up).

Does that make me less of a fan than someone who gets drunk and rowdy and screams until they're hoarse? No. It means I come out of games with more voice and fewer questions about what I did while I was there.

On the flip side, there are people who have no idea what a stretch play is, don't know the difference between a split end and a flanker, couldn't tell you what pass route a particular receiver is running and would have no clue how you attack a blitzing offense.

Me? I have no problem with those things, but does that make me a better fan than someone who doesn't? No. It might mean I'm a little more reasoned in my reactions and ideas, but if every fan was like me you'd have an awfully quiet stadium. So am I a better fan? No.

I always cringe when we get into these discussions about what makes a fan better. In reality most of the discussion tends to center on things that don't make anyone better or worse, just different.