Barclays Premier League- 2017/18 Season Thread

[Ja Rhule]

11 minutes ago, Borat said:

They’re 28 & 29 and never relied upon athleticism. A more pressing issue than age, I think, is that neither is very good.

Ozil would be a decent shout on a free, but I think he’s most likely to re-up with Arsenal. It’ll be Griezmann, or the like, IMO, along with a true winger and another starting fullback. 

Ozil is not a good fit...  he’s not physical at all and slowbad hell.  Mata is the same or better.

[Borat]

Just now, ARSEN said:

Ozil is not a good fit...  he’s not physical at all and slowbad hell.  Mata is the same or better.

They lack the creativity to break down compact sides — Ozil is one of the best in the world at providing that. Plenty of physical, fast players around him.

[Ja Rhule]

4 hours ago, Borat said:

They lack the creativity to break down compact sides — Ozil is one of the best in the world at providing that. Plenty of physical, fast players around him.

Mourinho sold him to Arsenal because he did not fit his system....  Second go round?

[Raskle]

22 hours ago, ARSEN said:

This.  Spurs are super healthy and lack depth.  City will likely win this season unless spurs manage to stay healthy.

How exactly do we lack depth? Other than Llorente backing Kane, which I'll honestly say I would have no idea how he'd perform, since he's only really gotten closing minutes so far. The only other spot that's a little thin is LW backup for Son, with Nkoudou being largely untested. But, if need be, any of the top three can swing out to a position to cover - Dele, Erikson, or Sissoko.

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/first-team-profiles/

Every spot has a capable backup, who can and/or has scored. Also, we haven't had a couple of our bigger names, like Dembele, Wanyama, Davies, and Lamela - all of which have been injured for a while now, so not sure where you're getting "super healthy" from. Once they return fully from injury, it should help alleviate any dual-front anxiety we may have. Again, to me, the only real thing we're lacking is a capable Kane backup, but you're not going to find many world-class strikers on the street who would be willing to sit the bench for a large amount of time. Landing Llorente was a big coup for Ole Baldy, if he gives us just a few goals this year, and allows Kane to sit a few necessary games.

 

[Borat]

17 hours ago, ARSEN said:

Mourinho sold him to Arsenal because he did not fit his system....  Second go round?

? Mou left Madrid before Ozil did (albeit by only 4/5 months). They were both employed by the club for the same 3 seasons, and Mou sanctioned Ozil’s transfer in ‘10.

[Ja Rhule]

2 hours ago, Borat said:

? Mou left Madrid before Ozil did (albeit by only 4/5 months). They were both employed by the club for the same 3 seasons, and Mou sanctioned Ozil’s transfer in ‘10.

Ancelotti sold Ozil cause he underperformed under Mou...  which he did.  As Arsenal fan watching Ozil from his arrival here, I can tell you, you will be extremely frustrated because Ozil is extremely inconsistent.  Ozil loves partying and drinking and known for banging multiple chicks at the same time.  I honestly think he plays hangover at least 50% of his games lol.  But when he’s hot, he’s hot.  Amazing watching him play but you never know what Ozil you will get when game starts.

[Ja Rhule]

2 hours ago, Raskle said:

How exactly do we lack depth? Other than Llorente backing Kane, which I'll honestly say I would have no idea how he'd perform, since he's only really gotten closing minutes so far. The only other spot that's a little thin is LW backup for Son, with Nkoudou being largely untested. But, if need be, any of the top three can swing out to a position to cover - Dele, Erikson, or Sissoko.

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/first-team-profiles/

Every spot has a capable backup, who can and/or has scored. Also, we haven't had a couple of our bigger names, like Dembele, Wanyama, Davies, and Lamela - all of which have been injured for a while now, so not sure where you're getting "super healthy" from. Once they return fully from injury, it should help alleviate any dual-front anxiety we may have. Again, to me, the only real thing we're lacking is a capable Kane backup, but you're not going to find many world-class strikers on the street who would be willing to sit the bench for a large amount of time. Landing Llorente was a big coup for Ole Baldy, if he gives us just a few goals this year, and allows Kane to sit a few necessary games.

 

Lol, your team has a great character and chemistry...  You take few pieces out and the chemistry will fail.  It’s common with every team. Llorente is not Kane.  Kane is one of the best strikers in the world.

[Borat]

16 minutes ago, ARSEN said:

Ancelotti sold Ozil cause he underperformed under Mou...  which he did.  As Arsenal fan watching Ozil from his arrival here, I can tell you, you will be extremely frustrated because Ozil is extremely inconsistent.  Ozil loves partying and drinking and known for banging multiple chicks at the same time.  I honestly think he plays hangover at least 50% of his games lol.  But when he’s hot, he’s hot.  Amazing watching him play but you never know what Ozil you will get when game starts.

That’s not at all what you said the first time, and hardly the main factor (if included in the club’s calculus at all). Ozil was sold because Madrid bought Bale, who, at the time, was one of the hottest young players in world football. They broke the transfer record for him, and Ozil became surplus to requirements and, given that Madrid has no sugar daddy, an unnecessary extravagance.

Ozil is absolutely inconsistent, but he is still more consistent than both Mkhi and Mata, and a better player besides. He’s not a panacea, but he would be a clear upgrade and makes financial sense given his contractual status. 

[Ja Rhule]

29 minutes ago, Borat said:

That’s not at all what you said the first time, and hardly the main factor (if included in the club’s calculus at all). Ozil was sold because Madrid bought Bale, who, at the time, was one of the hottest young players in world football. They broke the transfer record for him, and Ozil became surplus to requirements and, given that Madrid has no sugar daddy, an unnecessary extravagance.

Ozil is absolutely inconsistent, but he is still more consistent than both Mkhi and Mata, and a better player besides. He’s not a panacea, but he would be a clear upgrade and makes financial sense given his contractual status. 

Mkhi is better than Ozil...  Ozil does not score and horrible at dribbling.  What he good at is passing...  Ozil is a perfect fit at Arsenal with Spanish style of play... Mou employs bent but don’t break with fast counterattack which absolutely do not fit Özil because he’s neither physical nor fast.  Also, Ozil was sold because Di Maria was deemed a better fit.

[Borat]

2 hours ago, ARSEN said:

Mkhi is better than Ozil...  Ozil does not score and horrible at dribbling.  What he good at is passing...  Ozil is a perfect fit at Arsenal with Spanish style of play... Mou employs bent but don’t break with fast counterattack which absolutely do not fit Özil because he’s neither physical nor fast.  Also, Ozil was sold because Di Maria was deemed a better fit.

I doubt you’d find very many who would agree with you re: the relative worth of Mkhi (who is also neither physical nor fast, btw). Your third explanation of Ozil’s departure is your most correct yet, but requires some nuance — ADM and Ozil didn’t (and still don’t) play the same position and were both in the starting XI the year prior to Ozil’s departure. Bale more directly replaced Ozil, and ADM filled a position that, until Bale’s arrival, didn’t really exist at Madrid.

While it is true that ADM played as the most advanced member of a midfield three in ‘13-‘14, Ozil very rarely played this position when they lined up under Mourinho (and was a de facto #10 when he did). With Alonso and Khedira in the side (and Modric yet to establish himself fully), Madrid more frequently utilized two DMs and allowed Ozil to operate as a pure #10 or deployed Ozil as a wide(ish) attacker in the event a 4-3-3 was chosen. ADM played opposite Ronaldo when Ozil was a #10, and was a spot starter in a midfield 3 when Ozil was shunted out to the right. 

Bale’s injection into the lineup massively diminished Ozil’s usefulness — with Ronaldo already in the side, Madrid suddenly had two, must-start, nominally ‘wide’ attacking players who liked to operate more centrally. This necessitated a 4-3-3, and left no room for Ozil in the starting XI as the only two positions to which he is reasonably suited in that formation were firmly filled by Bale & Ronaldo. You are right in that ADM was a “better fit” in a post-Bale XI on the whole, but he was never considered a better fit for any of the specific positions that Ozil played while at a Madrid. #10 ceased to exist, and the RW became Bale’s. 

[Ja Rhule]

8 hours ago, Borat said:

I doubt you’d find very many who would agree with you re: the relative worth of Mkhi (who is also neither physical nor fast, btw). Your third explanation of Ozil’s departure is your most correct yet, but requires some nuance — ADM and Ozil didn’t (and still don’t) play the same position and were both in the starting XI the year prior to Ozil’s departure. Bale more directly replaced Ozil, and ADM filled a position that, until Bale’s arrival, didn’t really exist at Madrid.

While it is true that ADM played as the most advanced member of a midfield three in ‘13-‘14, Ozil very rarely played this position when they lined up under Mourinho (and was a de facto #10 when he did). With Alonso and Khedira in the side (and Modric yet to establish himself fully), Madrid more frequently utilized two DMs and allowed Ozil to operate as a pure #10 or deployed Ozil as a wide(ish) attacker in the event a 4-3-3 was chosen. ADM played opposite Ronaldo when Ozil was a #10, and was a spot starter in a midfield 3 when Ozil was shunted out to the right. 

Bale’s injection into the lineup massively diminished Ozil’s usefulness — with Ronaldo already in the side, Madrid suddenly had two, must-start, nominally ‘wide’ attacking players who liked to operate more centrally. This necessitated a 4-3-3, and left no room for Ozil in the starting XI as the only two positions to which he is reasonably suited in that formation were firmly filled by Bale & Ronaldo. You are right in that ADM was a “better fit” in a post-Bale XI on the whole, but he was never considered a better fit for any of the specific positions that Ozil played while at a Madrid. #10 ceased to exist, and the RW became Bale’s. 

Mkhi was considered one of the most technical talents in Germany when he joined M U.  Arsenal and Liverpool wanted him bad...  He failed in Mou system because he’s neither fast nor physical.  So your plan is to replace him with Ozil who is neither fast nor physical.....  I’d gladly swap Ozil for Mkhi.  Mkhi is not only great passer but he also can strike the ball.  Only negative thing about Mkhi is his age. 

I watched way more Ozil games than you have and you clearly misjudging his contribution.  I’d love for M U to fork out huge money just to find out later this player is not a good fit like it happened so many times already.

[Borat]

2 hours ago, ARSEN said:

Mkhi was considered one of the most technical talents in Germany when he joined M U.  Arsenal and Liverpool wanted him bad...  He failed in Mou system because he’s neither fast nor physical.  So your plan is to replace him with Ozil who is neither fast nor physical.....  I’d gladly swap Ozil for Mkhi.  Mkhi is not only great passer but he also can strike the ball.  Only negative thing about Mkhi is his age. 

I watched way more Ozil games than you have and you clearly misjudging his contribution.  I’d love for M U to fork out huge money just to find out later this player is not a good fit like it happened so many times already.

I have a massive Arsenal fan in my family, see basically all of their games as a result, and am also ethnically German. From your non-factual comments about Ozil’s Madrid stint/usage, I clearly watched him more than you prior to his Arsenal move, and have continued to watch the player on a regular basis since he broke into the NT. I wouldn’t be so quick to declare yourself an expert in comparison, and even so, that’s largely useless ad verecundiam.

Moreover, I have watched pretty much every single United game Mkhi has played in — it’s pretty rich that you are simultaneously telling me I’m “misjudging [Ozil’s] contribution” because I’m not nominally an Arsenal fan, and then telling me why I’m wrong about Mkhi. He has not failed due to physical limitations (as he is not asked to outpace or outmuscle people from the #10 slot), he has failed because his occasional, incisive brilliance does not make up for his wastefulness. While he is undoubtedly more skilled at take-ones than Ozil, he rarely shoulders that burden at United. He was not “considered one of the most technical talents in Germany” — he had a single banner year in 15/16, a Mahrez-type season. Ozil is considered by basically every German to be a far superior talent. Young midfielders are instructed to watch him (and Kroos) play. 

And finally, I never once suggested a “huge money” move — Ozil makes sense because he is available on a pre-contact in January. A transfer fee will be cut-rate or non-existent (if United waits till the summer). You are welcome to your opinion that Mkhitaryan is a superior footballer, but the majority of those who follow the sport do not share it (including most Arsenal and United supporters). 

[Ja Rhule]

13 minutes ago, Borat said:

I have a massive Arsenal fan in my family, see basically all of their games as a result, and am also ethnically German. From your non-factual comments about Ozil’s Madrid stint/usage, I clearly watched him more than you prior to his Arsenal move, and have continued to watch the player on a regular basis since he broke into the NT. I wouldn’t be so quick to declare yourself an expert in comparison, and even so, that’s largely useless ad verecundiam.

Moreover, I have watched pretty much every single United game Mkhi has played in — it’s pretty rich that you are simultaneously telling me I’m “misjudging [Ozil’s] contribution” because I’m not nominally an Arsenal fan, and then telling me why I’m wrong about Mkhi. He has not failed due to physical limitations (as he is not asked to outpace or outmuscle people from the #10 slot), he has failed because his occasional, incisive brilliance does not make up for his wastefulness. While he is undoubtedly more skilled at take-ones than Ozil, he rarely shoulders that burden at United. He was not “considered one of the most technical talents in Germany” — he had a single banner year in 15/16, a Mahrez-type season. Ozil is considered by basically every German to be a far superior talent. Young midfielders are instructed to watch he (and Kroos) play. 

And finally, I never once suggested a “huge money” move — Ozil makes sense because he is available on a pre-contact in January. A transfer fee will be cut-rate or non-existent (if United waits till the summer). You are welcome to your opinion that Mkhitaryan is a superior footballer, but the majority of those who follow the sport do not share it (including most Arsenal and United supporters). 

Wooow, relax.  Going on all out attack here.  Just because you are entitled to your opinion doesn’t mean you are correct.  Again, you called out Mkhi on wastefulness... that is literally what Ozil does many many times through the game.  He is not a good fit for M U and if you get him, I will laugh at you and will tell you I told you so.

[Borat]

51 minutes ago, ARSEN said:

Wooow, relax.  Going on all out attack here.  Just because you are entitled to your opinion doesn’t mean you are correct.  Again, you called out Mkhi on wastefulness... that is literally what Ozil does many many times through the game.  He is not a good fit for M U and if you get him, I will laugh at you and will tell you I told you so.

That’s literally your entire argument — if you’re going to play credentials, you can usually expect others to do the same. 

And re: wastefulness, I’m making a relative point — both clearly struggle, but Ozil is more productive despite his warts. Ipso facto, on a reasonable fee for a club that is rolling in dough, he’s a prudent move. 

But ultimately of course, we’ll see (or not, as I doubt Ozil will end up moving).