Greg Gabriel: "Don't be surprised if Marty Hurney turns the "interim" gig into the full time me GM job"

[Mr. Scot]

3 hours ago, top dawg said:

At the end of the day, I'm keeping an open mind. If Hurney ends up with the gig, it will be for all the right reasons after a wildly successful season. And damn giving all the credit to G-man. If G-man can take credit for Hurney's building of the core, then Hurney can take advantage of G-man's business prowess and ancillary pieces. 

A good season this year is poor justification for keeping a guy that was hired after all the heavy lifting was already done.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, RoaringRiot said:

I don't think this is true at all. I think he might parlay this into another job within the organization but it's not going to be the GM job. Maybe he fills Morrison's role.

I could live with that.

But if Jerry Richardson - the one whose decision making is the real problem here - offered him the GM job, would he be able to turn it down?

[RoaringRiot]

16 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I could live with that.

But if Jerry Richardson - the one whose decision making is the real problem here - offered him the GM job, would he be able to turn it down?

 Hell no he wouldn't turn it down. 

If we get towards the end of the season and haven't seen any progress or updates on the permanent GM search then I'll give this some "worry". 

Also....under what circumstance would JR change his mind, lie to the fan base, and hire him full time? What would have had to happen in 2017 to make that a reality?

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, RoaringRiot said:

 Hell no he wouldn't turn it down. 

If we get towards the end of the season and haven't seen any progress or updates on the permanent GM search then I'll give this some "worry". 

Also....under what circumstance would JR change his mind, lie to the fan base, and hire him full time? What would have had to happen in 2017 to make that a reality?

I'm not even sure it'd require a winning season.

We could have a 6-10, 7-9 type year (maybe even worse) but if JR "feels good" about it, then I could see him making Hurney permanent.

Much as I hate to say it, the potential for things to go very badly downhill is huge right now.

[RoaringRiot]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm not even sure it'd require a winning season.

We could have a 6-10, 7-9 type year (maybe even worse) but if JR "feels good" about it, then I could see him making Hurney permanent.

Much as I hate to say it, the potential for things to go very badly downhill is huge right now.

So you think if we go 6-10 JR will do a 180 and pull the interim tag from Hurney?

If we go 6-10 then I would guess Ron would be gone and this team will look completely different in 2018. No way we have a terrible season and Hurney stays. That's just not realistic Scot. 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, RoaringRiot said:

So you think if we go 6-10 JR will do a 180 and pull the interim tag from Hurney?

If we go 6-10 then I would guess Ron would be gone and this team will look completely different in 2018. No way we have a terrible season and Hurney stays. That's just not realistic Scot. 

How realistic is firing the guy who brought the team it's most successful run over hurt feelings?

Richardson kept Hurney in place for eleven years where winning seasons were a rarity, all for the sake of loyalty and good feelings.

Yeah, I'm worried.

[RoaringRiot]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

How realistic is firing the guy who brought the team it's most successful run over hurt feelings?

Richardson kept Hurney in place for eleven years where winning seasons were a rarity, all for the sake of loyalty and good feelings.

Yeah, I'm worried.

It's extremely realistic because it happened.

like I said...when we get to the end of Nov beginning of Dec with no update on any progress then maybe I'll join you. Until then I just want to win some football games.

[Proudiddy]

It's crazy how these moves have turned otherwise persistently optimistic posters to completely negative...  

I guess it really does illustrate the extremes in opinions and perspectives on the matters at hand with our team.  I'm excited going forward.  I think Hurney really is just an interim GM.  The only way I could see that changing is a Superbowl run this season, and if that happens, how many people are still going to be against Hurney at that point?  So, I'm confident it will all work out, one way or another.

Hurney is getting beat up for a lot of JR's meddling.  He keeps getting lambasted here for 8 years without playoffs.  Meanwhile, he laid the foundation of the franchise with "all-time great" cornerstones in Cam and Luke, which Gettleman used to budget-build around.  I just have a sense of calm about the whole thing, that it will resolve itself for the best possible outcome for our franchise. 

Personally, no, I do NOT think JR makes him the permanent guy if we have anything less than a playoff appearance, and likely not even then.  And even if he does, I trust our scouting dept to still bring in talent, and I have 100% confidence that Hurney/JR will not make the same mistakes with similar extensions like his first tenure is riddled with, regardless...  

There is a lot of "sky is falling" going on because guys who really liked Gettleman's style are disheartened by the firing.  But when you really put things in perspective, he was no different than Hurney in that he still couldn't string together back to back winning seasons.  I just think Gettleman gets way too much credit for his occasional successes and not enough criticism for his shortcomings.  Hurney gets way too much criticism and not enough credit for the talent he left Gettleman.  Also, it's worth keeping mind, Rivera transformed when Hurney was fired because he was scared of losing his job, which DG also benefited from early.  When they (DG and Rivera) had success (just like under Hurney), the whole staff, front office included, kicked their feet up and got complacent, because they felt safe.  I expect Riverboat to be back this season as well because Dog's firing makes things feel more tenuous for everyone left behind.  The outcome of all this will be a positive one.  Meddling or not, JR is aware of how it looks and he doesn't want to look like a fool when all is said and done.  Just my opinion...

[RoaringRiot]

Good lord I took a screenshot because Diddy is actually making sense for once 

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

A good season this year is poor justification for keeping a guy that was hired after all the heavy lifting was already done.

Perhaps. But, like I said, the inconvenient truth of every Panther fan is that Gettleman's most successful season in large part was due to outstanding players that he inherited. Moreover, there is a solid argument that the two obvious weaknesses that he failed to address that season bit us in the ass in the end.

[Saca312]

1 hour ago, top dawg said:

Perhaps. But, like I said, the inconvenient truth of every Panther fan is that Gettleman's most successful season in large part was due to outstanding players that he inherited. Moreover, there is a solid argument that the two obvious weaknesses that he failed to address that season bit us in the ass in the end.

Oh gosh if Hurney's still around Cam and/or Luke wouldn't even be around by now. No way would he have been able to extend them with the cap trouble we were in.

Gettleman's first time where he actually had a lot of cap to spend was literally this past off-season. Every other was used to slowly creep ourselves out of the cellar we put ourselves in and retain our talent. It's practically a miracle Gettleman found as many cheap UDFAs & FAs to begin with.

He's addressed our o-line by finding solid interior linemen, and worked his best to find tackles even with below top 20 picks each draft and a terrible cap. He found Michael Oher, and even had Mike Remmers become somewhat competent instead of complete garbage, and Daryl Williams was dominating prior to being injured.

Even in 2016, our secondary still needed a revamp. Charles Tillman in 2015 was injured for most of the season and found himself with an ACL tear, hence why he retired. Bene broke his leg and never was the same, we had retired guys off the street as depth, and Norman wanted to hog a lot of money.

If we kept Norman at the price he wanted, Short and possibly Addison would be gone.

As far as WR, Gettleman tried his best. He drafted Kelvin Benjamin and Devin Funchess, who both still have a lot of upside (especially Funchess. I feel like he has a lot of bad luck where he didn't get enough looks & had issues during his chances, but his route-running's been getting better). 

He got us a cheap deep threat in Ginn, and kept patching holes the best way he could with our cap restrictions.

For 2015, you can say he inherited a bunch of good players, but he sustained them with a surrounding cast to maximize their talent. Kawann Short - Gettleman's guy - was a HUGE part of our D-line's success, alongside Star & all our depth pieces.

To say Gettleman did not have any success is just laughable at best. 

 

[top dawg]

9 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

Oh gosh if Hurney's still around Cam and/or Luke wouldn't even be around by now. No way would he have been able to extend them with the cap trouble we were in.

Gettleman's first time where he actually had a lot of cap to spend was literally this past off-season. Every other was used to slowly creep ourselves out of the cellar we put ourselves in and retain our talent. It's practically a miracle Gettleman found as many cheap UDFAs & FAs to begin with.

He's addressed our o-line by finding solid interior linemen, and worked his best to find tackles even with below top 20 picks each draft and a terrible cap. He found Michael Oher, and even had Mike Remmers become somewhat competent instead of complete garbage, and Daryl Williams was dominating prior to being injured.

Even in 2016, our secondary still needed a revamp. Charles Tillman in 2015 was injured for most of the season and found himself with an ACL tear, hence why he retired. Bene broke his leg and never was the same, we had retired guys off the street as depth, and Norman wanted to hog a lot of money.

If we kept Norman at the price he wanted, Short and possibly Addison would be gone.

As far as WR, Gettleman tried his best. He drafted Kelvin Benjamin and Devin Funchess, who both still have a lot of upside (especially Funchess. I feel like he has a lot of bad luck where he didn't get enough looks & had issues during his chances, but his route-running's been getting better). 

He got us a cheap deep threat in Ginn, and kept patching holes the best way he could with our cap restrictions.

For 2015, you can say he inherited a bunch of good players, but he sustained them with a surrounding cast to maximize their talent. Kawann Short - Gettleman's guy - was a HUGE part of our D-line's success, alongside Star & all our depth pieces.

To say Gettleman did not have any success is just laughable at best. 

 

The problem is that I absolutely did not say that Gettleman didn't have any success. Your suggestion that I did is what's ludicrous. What I said is that a large part of his success was due to players that Hurney acquired. I have also given him plenty of credit for his business decisions and SOME of his roster moves. And, I am not going to apologize for criticizing moves that were suspect. Gettleman was a work in progress, but unfortunately we'll never get to see his long term product because of his inflexibility or inability to compromise and/or adapt to the situation at hand.

I get the sense that he didn't even try to work things out sometimes, and at times you just have to do it. But that's neither here nor there, I have consistently said that I liked the way that the team was headed, but that Gettleman (among others) would have to up his game this season after failing so badly in the last. But apparently unlike others, I never gave Gettleman a blank check, and I don't believe that his philosophy is necessarily the holy grail to a championship. It's one among many, but it frankly needed some tweaking. His attitude apparently needed some adjustment as well. And sometimes a simple change in attitude can move mountains. 

Hurney's management needs some tweaking as well. But again, unlike others, I am not going to throw out his entire body of work as all bad or all good. Bill Barnwell said it best when he called Hurney's legacy "complicated" as opposed to settling for the easy out of calling it "disastrous."

 

"In hindsight, should the Panthers have been so brash about firing Hurney? At the time, there wasn't much of an argument against doing so. I certainly agreed with the move. The emergence of Newton and Kuechly as stars was a reasonable riposte, and the further ascension of Norman makes it even more difficult to justify the decision. When you find three elite assets in two years in the draft, you're unquestionably doing something right. Had Hurney been given time for those players to develop, there's no way the Panthers would have let him go.

"And yet, there's enough in the way of mistakes elsewhere to justify the decision. Hurney's aggressiveness in dealing future first-round picks for present second-rounders turned his 2009 and 2010 drafts into disasters, and when those picks turned into Jeff Otah and Everette Brown, the decisions got even worse. The only players left from the 2008-10 drafts still on Carolina's roster are Stewart and Robert McClain (who left and came back as a street free agent this year). Hurney's cap decisions crippled the team for years; it's a testament to how great the selections of Newton and Kuechly were and how smart he was to hire Rivera that the Panthers have been able to overcome those woes. Hurney's legacy was once disastrous; now, it's complicated."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14658742/ten-moves-took-carolina-panthers-losers-cusp-super-bowl-title-nfl

 

I am going to wait and see how things go before I jump to conclusions one way or another. All the speculation as to what Hurney couldn't have done and who he could or couldn't have kept really doesn't move me because we'll never know. What I do know is that he has an opportunity to make good on past mistakes and showcase some of his improvements as the IGM.  It's a unique opportunity, and I don't see it as all bad. It could turn out very well if he has actually learned a thing or two over the years. 

 

[countryboi]

I feel like if JR wanted Hurney to have the GM job full time why not just hire him right now? My best guess is that he sticks around the team but with a different job other than GM. 

[Mr. Scot]

9 hours ago, RoaringRiot said:

It's extremely realistic because it happened.

like I said...when we get to the end of Nov beginning of Dec with no update on any progress then maybe I'll join you. Until then I just want to win some football games.

So do I, but I can't deny what I see.

Richardson kept Hurney in place through a long stretch where his performance didn't merit his continued employment. And that because he valued something else above winning.

It's not farfetched that could happen again.