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And another one. Thomas Davis wants a contract extension before Training Camp.

nctarheel0619

By nctarheel0619,
in Carolina Panthers

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RumHam Veteran

RumHam

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Posted

It's going to be hard to extend a 34yo LB, especially when we drafted his replacement two years ago. Sounds like he's going to be playing elsewhere after this season. I don't want him going anywhere, but he can't hinder the progression. We extend him now and he gets hurt, we are fuged.

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Ace_Aladdin Newbie

Ace_Aladdin

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Posted
3 hours ago, RumHam said:

It's going to be hard to extend a 34yo LB, especially when we drafted his replacement two years ago. Sounds like he's going to be playing elsewhere after this season. I don't want him going anywhere, but he can't hinder the progression. We extend him now and he gets hurt, we are fuged.

Garbage analysis  look at the impact James Harrison has had at his age. 

TD is still playing at elite level and Panthers will run base 4-3 majority of the times 

TD - Luke - Shaq

Cash & Mayo are depth players not starter material. 

 

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IceWhiteice Enthusiast

IceWhiteice

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18 hours ago, thebigcat said:


An up and coming pro bowler for a sentimental declining linebacker?


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I didn't say that for TD but thats a ton of money for DT, which I feel can be better spent. Then draft a 1st round DT, he is on shaky ground. Same inconsistency as Hurney.

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jfra78 Veteran

jfra78

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Garbage analysis  look at the impact James Harrison has had at his age. 

TD is still playing at elite level and Panthers will run base 4-3 majority of the times 

TD - Luke - Shaq

Cash & Mayo are depth players not starter material. 

 

They will run nickel most of the time so only 2 LBs on the field. But, I think they find a way to keep TD for a couple more years.

 

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Ace_Aladdin Newbie

Ace_Aladdin

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10 minutes ago, jfra78 said:


The whole reason to bring Captain back was to play nickle

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In certain situations.

Majority of opponents in this year's schedules have versatile RBs that can come out of the backfield along with  TE combo that  allows them to utilize  the short passing game aka  Patriots, Faclons, Tampa, Greenbay, Saints, Jets, Chicago, etc 

This will require defenders (LBs) that can cover  size , speed, & power.

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jfra78 Veteran

jfra78

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In certain situations.
Majority of opponents in this year's schedules have versatile RBs that can come out of the backfield along with  TE combo that  allows them to utilize  the short passing game aka  Patriots, Faclons, Tampa, Greenbay, Saints, Jets, Chicago, etc 
This will require defenders (LBs) that can cover  size , speed, & power.

TD played 94% of the snaps last year, while shaq played less than 50%. This is with Luke being out half the year.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2016-snap-counts.htm
To me this shows they played mostly nickel. The fact that they went out and got a proven nickel tells me they plan to continue playing mostly nickel.

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uncfan888 Grand Master

uncfan888

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1 hour ago, jfra78 said:

The whole reason to bring Captain back was to play nickel

 

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They will probably run both around 50% of the time- maybe slightly more in nickel. But Shaq needs to see the field more than TD.. It's time. And the whole point of drafting Shaq was to eventually replace TD, sanjay

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PantherPhann89 Mentor

PantherPhann89

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On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 10:17 AM, uncfan888 said:

But TD isn't looking for a restructure.. Just an extension. He feels he has more good years in him. 

100% TRUE... I just don't like a possible domino effect.1st, Olsen, now TD. We could price ourselves out of a SB. But don't get me wrong, TD is totally deserving of everything he gets, a true definition of "Keep Pounding"

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SeoulPanther Newbie

SeoulPanther

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17 hours ago, RoaringRiot said:

Couple things....

You can't count Olsen's 3rd year of 1000 yards since it was after he signed the contract. When he signed his new deal he was basically tied for the 4th highest TE salary behind Gronk (he should be), Graham (was dominate at the time of his contract but I'd take Olsen now), and Thomas (Jags have to overpay). So you can argue that he took a "team friendly" deal or that he could have gotten more, but being paid top four TE money is a pretty fair deal for him. Your point of him having 3 years in a row and carrying the Panthers' offense are actually the exact reasons he wants a new deal - not because of Kalil. 

TD is being paid like a top 10 OLB. Seems pretty fair, especially considering his injury history. TD wants more years. 

Neither one of their contracts were "team friendly" or undersold their value. They were (at the time) very fair contracts. 

I'm not sure you really understand the Kalil contract very well. For starters, LT contracts are some of the highest in the league other than QBs. If you compare what Kalil got in relation to Reiff (who replaced him) and Okung then it's comparable to the market value - those two guys graded slightly higher than Kalil (none have been great but the demand for LT is high). Kalil's cap his this year is ~$4M and ~$6.75 next season. The Panthers can dump him after 2018 with ~$7M in dead cap space that can be spread out over a couple of seasons. That is far from "waaaay" overpaying him. If Kalil plays out his contract then that means he's played well, protected Cam for many years, we're more than likely winning, and the ~$15/m a year will actually be a bargain in 2021.

But back to my point....TD and Olsen both have strong arguments as to why they deserve new contracts. This is solely based on their performances and the importance of their roles to the team. They're not looking at Kalil and thinking "hey that guy sucks and got a ton of money so I deserve more money" as you suggest. That sounds ridiculous to even type. 

And I'm happy to agree to disagree, but if you're going to keep saying "they could have taken more" or that they're "bothered that a sucky Kalil got a big contract", can you back that up with some facts? Or is that just your assumption that you're pushing? 

   I'm well aware that LT pay is in a different league to most positions. I don't think I have stated otherwise. You make some fair points and you clearly have a better grasp of the MK contract breakdown than me. However many writers and analysts who do this for a job (not just me a fan with no inside knowledge) agree that its a terrible deal. In fact most people have it as the worst deal in free agency across the league.

You compare Okung and Reiff who have had struggles of their own but conveniently ignore Whitworth who was clearly the best available and signed cheaper than Kalil. If Kalil is bad it will be a severe handicap in playing terms. Point is its a risk. I'm sure like you I hope it works out. If it does-then it will be turn out to be market value. But even then its a gamble. Why not a prove-it contract?

My point in this has always been that expensive contracts especially to FA's have knock on effects on others. Jacksonville is a classic case in point. Great players terrible team. You disagree. You think I'm a horrible person for even suggesting it. Ok fine. But this is a forum where we discuss opinions. You say I assume things. Well so do you. That doesn't mean we can't discuss it without getting all offended.

And you still didn't answer my question. If the Davis and Olsen talk were unaffected by other contracts, why weren't they brought up at the end of the season? Why is it AFTER free agency and just prior to training camp that it comes up? Because they are trying to get leverage for their negotiations? Doesn't seem very smart to wait until all the cap is accounted for. So do you see them as disloyal self-serving players? I'm genuinely curious about your reasoning for their timing.

I hope they get their extension. I hope MK works out at LT. My motivation is asking the question isn't to slander anyone, I simply pose a question.

 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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I can say with the most certainty that TD and Olsen didn't look at Matt Kalil's contract and decide that they wanted more money because of what he is getting paid. These dudes aren't petty. Both of them have legitimate arguments - Olsen has way out performed his contract and TD is in his final year - for wanting/deserving more money. It's that black and white. 



Are you saying that because TD is black and Olsen is white? Is it that black and white??

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