Shula

[rico6]

4 hours ago, tarheelfan23 said:

Like i said he is not the best play caller but not at the bottom either.  IF you take Shula our of Cam, Cam might be kaepernick

Someone ban this bozo

[DaveThePanther2008]

We don't have any other options so we have to get onboard.

He'll have to prove to me he is going to utilize the talent DG has given him.

I am skeptical.

[Hogmolliesmaht]

If we finish with the #1 offense and win the SB, people will still hate Shula. I have made my peace with that.

[dpm0409]

3 hours ago, tarheelfan23 said:

so if you give praise and criticism it can be the truth?

Yes. 

The main point I was trying to make is the fact that it was an objective post.  He wasn't one extreme or the other so to speak.  Wasn't saying "Oh Shula sucks no matter what, fire his @ss!" and also wasn't saying "Lighten up on Shula, he is actually really good!" 

Said Shula was good at play design (props where necessary) and bad at play calling (constructive criticism).  So IMO, basically just laid the facts out and told it like it was, which is why I said I agree with his assessment. 

[ThPantherFan]

7 hours ago, tarheelfan23 said:

Can we all just stop the Shula hate.

No.

[panthers55]

8 hours ago, Cracka McNasty said:

No, I understand perfectly, I just think you're wrong (and I don't appreciate the condescension). 

Shula's strength is NOT in playcalling. It is play design. The best year Cam had was in 2015 when he was coming up to the line and doing his impression of Peyton Manning, making reads, changing plays, directing the orchestra. What happened to that last year? The plays were being run through Shula the majority of the year and the offense stagnated (not exclusively for that reason, but it was a contributing factor along with many many others).

Shula has developed one of the most intricate rushing attacks the league has seen in years. The play design is top notch. It really is. The misdirection, the motion, the numerous resulting plays that can be hidden by the formation until the very last second - it's great.

BUT he likes to try and fit square pegs into round holes. Injuries limited our offense and it seemed like he tried nothing to hide the shortcomings of the line. Deep drops for Cam all year when the line can't hold a block in max protect. He has Benjamin running 9 routes while he's too fat to outrun anyone. KB was at his best last year on quick slants, getting him the the ball quickly, getting up to top speed, and then daring anyone to try and tackle him. I understand we run the Air Coryell and it is based firmly on the deeper routes run by receivers, but come on man, there are quick hitters and slants hidden in that playbook somewhere, dust those pages off and let Cam live to see the 4th quarter. 

Now that he has some shinny new toys in CMC and Samuel, he is legitimately 100% out of excuses. 

Shula and Cam ran the same offense in 2016 that they ran in 2015. You can say that was one problem given other teams caught up to what we were doing in 2015 and Denver gave the league a blueprint to beat us. Press the receivers, blitz Cam and when he runs, head shot him and try to knock him out of the game. The difference between 2015 and 2016 was foremost about a defense that couldn't hold us especially in the second half. If games were 2 quarters we would have been 12-4 at worse. Add injuries to the o line meaning we never developed consistency and with Cam hurt the last part of the season and Kuechly out, you don't have to look very far to see the elephant in the room. Shula was surely not the problem.

Running a slant can be a set play but it usually is a recognition play between the receiver and quarterback when the defender is playing off the receiver and is using outside leverage. If the linebacker or safety is playing zone inside, there is a window to hit the receiver. Most of the quick hitters are when Cam recognizes the blitz and changes the routes to a hot read or a dumpoff. What teams did that often confused Cam last year was called delayed blitzes after pressing the receivers yo take away the slants  and quick hitters because receivers couldn't get separation. Once Cam got shell shocked with all the blitzes and head shots he started struggling to read defenses and recognize what defenses were doing. Hence the increased picks and I'll advised throw.s. with more weapons and a better One line, I think you will see a return to a top 5 offense in points as opposed to  a middle of the pack offense last year.

 

[Ricky Spanish]

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Shula and Cam ran the same offense in 2016 that they ran in 2015. You can say that was one problem given other teams caught up to what we were doing in 2015 and Denver gave the league a blueprint to beat us. Press the receivers, blitz Cam and when he runs, head shot him and try to knock him out of the game. The difference between 2015 and 2016 was foremost about a defense that couldn't hold us especially in the second half. If games were 2 quarters we would have been 12-4 at worse. Add injuries to the o line meaning we never developed consistency and with Cam hurt the last part of the season and Kuechly out, you don't have to look very far to see the elephant in the room. Shula was surely not the problem.

Running a slant can be a set play but it usually is a recognition play between the receiver and quarterback when the defender is playing off the receiver and is using outside leverage. If the linebacker or safety is playing zone inside, there is a window to hit the receiver. Most of the quick hitters are when Cam recognizes the blitz and changes the routes to a hot read or a dumpoff. What teams did that often confused Cam last year was called delayed blitzes after pressing the receivers yo take away the slants  and quick hitters because receivers couldn't get separation. Once Cam got shell shocked with all the blitzes and head shots he started struggling to read defenses and recognize what defenses were doing. Hence the increased picks and I'll advised throw.s. with more weapons and a better One line, I think you will see a return to a top 5 offense in points as opposed to  a middle of the pack offense last year.

 

I disagree but see where you are coming from. 

[top dawg]

I don't generally be an apologist for anyone, except those who have not gotten enough time to show their wares. I am not an apologist for Cam, Gettleman or Rivera, and I'm certainly not going to be for Shula. He has been in football for a long time---hell, he has a helluva pedigree, so he should know how to scheme around weaknesses. If personnel is not up to snuff, I get it, but you at least have to use what you have in the most efficient manner possible. And as far as in-game adjustments, I don't want to hear about how hard it is because that's what this experienced football coach is paid to do when the going gets tough. If they figure you out, and you know that they've figured you out, as a coach, you have to do something different...At least give it the ol' college try. If the coaches are just going through the motions because the status quo is all they know when the going gets tough, then players are eventually going to follow suit. 

So, Shula is not blameless for last season. He played his part, as did Gettleman, Rivera, Cam and maybe some others. He is part of that elephant in the room. 

This year, with the additional weapons that he has---the supposed mathchup nightmares---he better show some marked progress because his status quo really ain't all that remarkable but for one season.

[Jangler]

On 6/22/2017 at 9:09 AM, tarheelfan23 said:

Can we all just stop the Shula hate...the guy is a very good play caller and he needs our support.  If we can all get behind him and as the fans show our support it will give him the confidence to be the best play caller in the league like i know he can....The guy is creative but the players juts have to execute.....

 

Lets go for an awesome ride we are about to have next season

 

@rhyslloyd

[shaqattaq]

On 6/22/2017 at 9:09 AM, tarheelfan23 said:

Can we all just stop the Shula hate...the guy is a very good play caller and he needs our support.  If we can all get behind him and as the fans show our support it will give him the confidence to be the best play caller in the league like i know he can....The guy is creative but the players juts have to execute.....

 

Lets go for an awesome ride we are about to have next season

 

@rhyslloyd

I agree to wait until I actually see Shula call a game with the new offensive toys before I give him any more poo. Hopefully, I won't have to because he'll kick some serious a$$. Have a nice summer Mikey!

[tiger7_88]

9 hours ago, Jangler said:

[panthers55]

10 hours ago, top dawg said:

This year, with the additional weapons that he has---the supposed mathchup nightmares---he better show some marked progress because his status quo really ain't all that remarkable but for one season.

I agree that everyone is going to have to improve if we are going to be playing in February. Shula, Rivera and Gettleman have been at it for months. They have evolved the playbook and acquired the personnel to overcome the offensive issues of receivers not getting separation. We brought in Taylor and brought in speed. We shored up the offensive  line with Kalil and Moton.

On defense we rectified the lack of veterans in the secondary and beefed up the overall quality of the DE position and the pass rush. 

I think everyone is all in and both coordinators are on the hot seat. I think Rivera is safe. Going to the Superbowl buys you some security. But I doubt anyone will be satisfied if we don't go all the way. 

The next stage is getting player buy-in and installing the offense and defense. I hope it is exactly what we have been promised. An offense and defense  that are aggressive and dictate to their respective opponents instead of a conservative nickel and dime offense  or bend until you break defense. No one was happy with last year yet we lost 6 games by 3 points or less. The perfect storm and we were 18 points from 12-4.  I am optimistic and done with the recriminations of last year. This team is going to look a lot like 2015 only this time we will be more explosive on both sides of the ball. I am all in already. Then again I do that every year. I am an obsessed fan and stay steadfast in good and bad times. I refuse to be "a realist" or a cynic until at least October. Surely  not in June. I look forward to training camp. Need to get down there myself. This one should be epic.

 

[RetiredCollegeCoach]

An artist is only as good as his paintbrushes...

[DaveThePanther2008]

On 6/22/2017 at 4:51 PM, panthers55 said:

I think the problem is that what folks think are easy adjustments to make in game really aren't. For example if Cam is getting pummeled on 5 step drops going to screen passes isn't going to magically change anything. And going to quick timing passes sounds good if you are running a WCO but are not what a Coryell vertical system is built on. If it is a simple adjustment you can pretty much figure the coach who develops a good pregame plan would also actually have planned certain adjustments if the defense changes up based on the likelihood that they have seen other teams make similar adjustments. This is a copy cat league. 

The issue is actually more complex and is usually more about constant adjustments from play to play, teams disguising what they do, and players winning individual matchups as they progress through the game. A DE setting up one move for 3 plays by doing something else and then on 3rd down go to that move. Playcalling gets too much credit or blame while execution and physical talent are actually much more important and are often overlooked or minimized.

So explain to me why most defensive coordinators and most other offensive coordinators can make these in game adjustments.

If you have injuries going into a game.  You should already have a game plan designed for your weaknesses.   

You are a Shula fan and we've been through this discussion before.   He was terrible at in game adjustments in 2015.  The only thing everyone loved was we built a big enough lead where we were able to overcome his inabilities.   

How many games did we almost give away that year.  Too many.  Easily could have been 10-6 or so instead of 15-1.